Dating Ramayana

The theory that Christianity aids the advancement of Science and Technology is wrong.

2020.09.02 16:35 intellectualgulf The theory that Christianity aids the advancement of Science and Technology is wrong.

Now at least one rational response will show up in Google results. It is absolutely absurd that until today, 20200902, if you searched for the phrase "christian damage to human knowledge", you would have found no results.
This is utterly ridiculous to anyone remotely familiar with history.
Unfortunately if you search for the phrase "christianity and the advancement of technology" or just "christianity and technology" you get results by a new cult of Christianity professing the incorrect thesis that claims, "Christianity “The Historical Roots of Our Ecologic Crisis,” (1967) ". https://science.sciencemag.org/content/155/3767/1203.
I will prove the thesis wrong using a single historical fact to begin with, but there are so many that I will just keep adding to the list until someone gives me a doctorate for this.
Trying to claim "Christianity is beneficial to technology and science" is so incredibly inaccurate I can't begin to describe the magnitude of the error. I can call this branch of nutters a Cult because they are actively trying to alter history in a very dangerous way. The Catholic / Christian churches and nearly every branch ultimately promote misinformation and lies, with this ridiculous theory being the biggest turd so far.
The claim by White is,
"the emergence in widespread practice of the Baconian creed, that scientific knowledge means technological power over nature can scarcely be dated before 1850".
Well that isn't how logic or history work at all.
Firstly, just because the scientific method had not been described by Sir Francis Bacon until the 1650's does not mean in any shape or form that the methods were not being applied beforehand.
This would be like claiming gravity did not exist before Newton described it, which clearly is not how the physical world operates.
Unfortunately the best summation of White's Thesis, found in the "Encyclopedia of Religion and Nature", seems to be the origin for the idea that White was proposing a link between Christianity and technology:
Had White shown that religion was a cause of technological development
It seems White's paper and later evaluations within "Christian Scholarly circles" is what led to this absurd attempt to whitewash history.
Really everyone should stop here, as the theory has already proven itself false in basic premise.
Let's go ahead and prove it wrong though before the overwhelming amount of bullshit being spewed overwhelms actual historical fact.
To do this, let's look at one of my favorite historical figures, Archimedes of Syracuse (/ˌɑːrkɪˈmiːdiːz/;[2] Ancient Greek: Ἀρχιμήδης, Arkhimḗdēs; Doric Greek: [ar.kʰi.mɛː.dɛ̂ːs]; c. 287 – c. 212 BC) was a Greek mathematician, physicist, engineer, inventor, and astronomer.[3]
A large part of Archimedes' work in engineering arose from fulfilling the needs of his home city of Syracuse. The Greek writer Athenaeus of Naucratis described how King Hiero II commissioned Archimedes to design a huge ship, the Syracusia, which could be used for luxury travel, carrying supplies, and as a naval warship. The Syracusia is said to have been the largest ship built in classical antiquity.[31] According to Athenaeus, it was capable of carrying 600 people and included garden decorations, a gymnasium) and a temple dedicated to the goddess Aphrodite among its facilities. Since a ship of this size would leak a considerable amount of water through the hull, the Archimedes' screw was purportedly developed in order to remove the bilge water. Archimedes' machine was a device with a revolving screw-shaped blade inside a cylinder. It was turned by hand, and could also be used to transfer water from a low-lying body of water into irrigation canals. The Archimedes' screw is still in use today for pumping liquids and granulated solids such as coal and grain. The Archimedes' screw described in Roman times by Vitruvius may have been an improvement on a screw pump that was used to irrigate the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.[32][33] The world's first seagoing steamship with a screw propeller was the SS Archimedes, which was launched in 1839 and named in honor of Archimedes and his work on the screw.[34]
For a wonderful example of why Christians should not be allowed to spread this ridiculous theory of how helpful they are to science and technology lets look at a Christian practice of writing over old manuscripts with bible nonsense:

Archimedes Palimpsest
In 1906, The Archimedes Palimpsest revealed works by Archimedes thought to have been lost.
The foremost document containing the work of Archimedes is the Archimedes Palimpsest. In 1906, the Danish professor Johan Ludvig Heiberg) visited Constantinople and examined a 174-page goatskin) parchment of prayers written in the 13th century AD. He discovered that it was a palimpsest, a document with text that had been written over an erased older work. Palimpsests were created by scraping the ink from existing works and reusing them, which was a common practice in the Middle Ages as vellum was expensive. The older works in the palimpsest were identified by scholars as 10th century AD copies of previously unknown treatises by Archimedes.[75] The parchment spent hundreds of years in a monastery library in Constantinople before being sold to a private collector in the 1920s. On October 29, 1998 it was sold at auction to an anonymous buyer for $2 million at Christie's in New York.[76]
The palimpsest holds seven treatises, including the only surviving copy of On Floating Bodies in the original Greek. It is the only known source of The Method of Mechanical Theorems, referred to by Suidas and thought to have been lost forever. Stomachion was also discovered in the palimpsest, with a more complete analysis of the puzzle than had been found in previous texts. The palimpsest is now stored at the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore, Maryland, where it has been subjected to a range of modern tests including the use of ultraviolet and x-ray light to read the overwritten text.[77]
So what does Archimedes tell us? Well he tells us we have a verified person alive before Christ who practiced science. Archimedes definitely followed a different religion since the Judaic People didn't have the Maccabean Revolt (origin of Hunnakah) until 150 BCE.
Looking at the religions history of Ancient Rome we can see that is is very unlikely Judaism or Christianity had become more than Cults by the time of Archimedes, who lived in Syracuse before the Romans conquered it, and died as a result of that conquering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome
So just to be clear we have a "heathen" who is recognized by anyone with a brain as one of the most influential scientists to ever live.
Syracuse did LATER become infected by Christianity but it was not founded by Hebrew or Christian peoples and certainly was not Judaic or Christian or Catholic.
Syracuse was founded by Greek colonists in 734 or 733 BC, part of Magna Graecia. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia: "Syracuse claims to be the second Church founded by St. Peter, after that of Antioch. It also claims that St. Paul preached there. ... In the times of St. Cyprian (the middle of the third century), Christianity certainly flourished at Syracuse, and the catacombs clearly show that this was the case in the second century." Across the Strait of Messina, Calabria on the mainland was also probably an early center of Christianity.[63]
To put the nail in the ridiculous notion that Christianity is somehow linked to scientific and technological progress, let's just have a look at the timeline of notable events in human history.
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191735417.timeline.000
c. 300 bce
Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma emerge as India's trio of main gods, with the Vedic religion of the Aryans evolving into Hinduism
The Celts move across the Channel into Britain, soon becoming the dominant ethnic group in the island
The Greek author Theophrastus writes On the History of Plants, the earliest surviving work on botany
The flexibility of the Roman legion transforms the Greek phalanx into an even more effective fighting machine
Euclid, teaching at the museum in Alexandria, writes what becomes Europe's standard textbook on geometry
Vesta, goddess of the hearth, is served in Rome by virgin priestesses who tend the sacred flame in her shrine
The Indian epic of romance and adventure, the Ramayana, is probably the work of a single author at about this time
Epicurus postulates a universe of indestructible atoms in which man himself is responsible for achieving a balanced life
Phoenicia is brought into the new Hellenistic empire, changing hands frequently between contending successors of Alexander
c. 300 bce - ce 100
The people of Paracas, a coastal region of central Peru, create extremely sophisticated fabrics of woven cotton or vicuña wool
299 bce
The Roman siege technique is improved by the 'tortoise' which protects the attacking force
Seleucus founds Antioch as a Greek city on the trade route between Mesopotamia and Europe
292 bce
The Colossus, a giant statue of Helios the sun god, is erected beside the harbour of Rhodes
281 bce
Pyrrhus lands in Italy, with 25,000 men and 20 elephants, to fight for the Greek colony of Tarentum against the Romans
c. 280 bce
The Jewish community of Alexandria coins the word diaspora for Jews living far from Israel
The Alexandrian school of medicine develops an alarming form of clinical anatomy – human vivisection
A great lighthouse, subsequently one of the Seven Wonders of the World, is built on the island of Pharos, off Alexandria
The Jews of Alexandria commission the Greek translation of the Old Testament which becomes known as the Septuagint
272 bce
Asoka, a devotee of Buddhism, wins the Mauryan throne and establishes India's first empire
c. 270 bce
On the small Greek island of Samos an astronomer, Aristarchus, comes to the startling conclusion that the earth is in orbit round the sun
264 bce
A clash in Sicily, between Rome and Carthage, leads to the First Punic War
The first gladiatorial contests in Rome are part of the entertainment at a funeral, and soon become popular
c. 260 bce
The 500,000 scrolls in the library at Alexandria are listed in a catalogue, which itself runs to 120 scrolls
A Carthaginian quinquereme, captured by the Romans, is used as the model for the first Roman fleet - constructed in two months
The new Roman fleet wins a decisive victory over the Carthaginians at Mylae, thanks largely to the 'raven' (corvus in Latin)
c. 250 bce
The organ, using a mechanical device to pump air through a set of musical pipes, is invented in Alexandria by Ctesibius
Archimedes (it is said) leaps out of his bath shouting eureka ('I have found it') when he perceives how to test for relative density
Asoka, extending his rule over much of India, proclaims his Buddhist faith on pillars and in rock inscriptions
The Chinese develop the crossbow, many centuries before its use in Europe
The first alchemists, working in Alexandria, are also the world's first experimental chemists
The digits known now as Arabic numerals make their first tentative appearance in India
The Romans evolve a system of numerals which, until the end of the Middle Ages, is a handicap to western arithmetic
Buddhism reaches Sri Lanka as a result of the missionary efforts of the Indian ruler, Asoka
To help the king of Syracuse extract water from the hold of a ship (so the story goes), Archimedes invents the screw now known by his name
Hmmm. I see an odd lack of the Big G given how Christianity or other religions of the book are supposed to be somehow integral to scientific progress.
Oh wait that's right. It's a lie. That explains it much more simply than rewriting history doesn't it?
Yes many scientists since the creation of Christianity have been Christian. A lot of people who died were alive too.
All people will inevitably try to enact / enforce policies and laws that align with their personal beliefs. Logical / rational people do not allow their irrational beliefs (religion) to guide their policy making. Irrational people, the religious, actively try to force the rest of the world to follow their irrational beliefs.
If you don't see how that can be dangerous, consider that pre-marital sex used to get you killed by a mob chucking rocks.
Yeah... no. No one should be expected to let a group of people who believe they commit ritualistic cannibalism every week decide on law.
Like I said I am going to keep adding to this, and I will clean up the language, but it makes me furious to know that Christian "scholars" are trying to white wash history and make it look like Christianity is somehow responsible for technonological / scientific progress. It is absurd. Chrsitianity / Catholicism / Religion itself is almost always anathema towards scientific progress since science unveils the lies that are woven into every religion.
Resurrection - never happened.
Deities visiting the planet - never happened.
Miracles - never happened.
Religion being the moral backbone of society - laughably wrong
Now lets have a look at REAL things that REALLY happened and aren't weird masturbatory conjecture.
Galileo, the most famous example of a scientist put to death for arguing with the church
People that Christians burned because religion
Christians burning books, the epitome of destroying knowledge beyond just murdering people
Conservative Christians Deny Climate Change still
Or how about the super disturbing fact that the United States Supreme Courts constantly has to fight to keep idiotic religious rules from infecting our schools and government
Or how about the fact that God was added to the United States way after the fact, and we were intended to be a non-affiliated country
Modern Christian revisionists would have you believe the United States was founded as a Christian nation. No it was not by any mean. Let us prove this by looking at the Constitution:
ARTICLE VI
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Interesting that it is directly stated NO RELIGIOUS TEST SHALL EVER BE REQUIRED AS A QUALIFICATION TO ANY OFFICE OR PUBLIC TRUST.
So politicians campaigning based on their religious affiliation could actually be seen as a violation of the Constitution. Making religion a basis for election is contrary to the constitution.
The idea that the separation of Church and State was not intentional or was somehow added later is absurd. The first amendment was suggested in September 25, 1789 and ratified in December 15, 1791.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
If you look at the "Christianity in the United States" Wiki page, you can see more of this revisionist bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_in_the_United_States
Separation of church and state[edit]
In October 1801, members of the Danbury Baptists Associations wrote a letter to the new president-elect Thomas Jefferson. Baptists, being a minority in Connecticut, were still required to pay fees to support the Congregationalist majority. The Baptists found this intolerable. The Baptists, well aware of Jefferson's own unorthodox beliefs, sought him as an ally in making all religious expression a fundamental human right and not a matter of government largesse.
In his January 1, 1802 reply to the Danbury Baptist Association Jefferson summed up the First Amendment's original intent, and used for the first time anywhere a now-familiar phrase in today's political and judicial circles: the amendment established a "wall of separation between church and state." Largely unknown in its day, this phrase has since become a major Constitutional issue. The first time the U.S. Supreme Court cited that phrase from Jefferson was in 1878, 76 years later.
This is so obviously wrong given historical fact that I shouldn't have to spell it out for anyone. This is not just navel-gazing conjecture as there are now conservative Christians trying to actively change history. What a sad state the world is in (again).
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2020.08.30 09:53 sardarbhagat Fifty people who have affected Hindus and Hinduism in a negative way – Francois Gautier

In a recently posted article on François Gautier’s website, he lists the names of 50 people who can be described as enemies of Hindus and Hinduism. He says that he created the list, which is incomplete, without malice aforethought.
Here is the list, 50 Biggest Enemies of Hindus (Dead or Alive), including the reasons he gives to justify his choice of enemies — Editor
Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, who along with a few hundred men, stood his ground against the most powerful emperor of his times, has practically no place in Indian history books and is often described as a petty chieftain or even a plunderer. So is Maharana Pratap, the only Rajput who fought against the Mughals and actually defeated Akbar in Haldighati.
Hindus tend to merge and melt wherever they live—and in the process, lose some of their identities and togetherness. And finally the most deadly and vicious intellectuals that we have reviewed above, are Hindus most of them. They are the ones that should be targeted, in a non-violent but firm manner. – Francois Gautier, 13 June 2016. The list has been edited by a staff writer at Newsgram and again by the editor of Bharata Bharati. See the original here.
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2020.08.04 08:27 1984_is_overrated_af Depictions of scenes from the Ramayana on a pillar in the Virupaksha temple at Pattadakallu, Karnataka dated to 740 CE [OC]

Depictions of scenes from the Ramayana on a pillar in the Virupaksha temple at Pattadakallu, Karnataka dated to 740 CE [OC] submitted by 1984_is_overrated_af to IndiaSpeaks [link] [comments]


2020.07.14 22:20 sampathk6011 100% pure organic Ceylon,Mexican spicy

The spice trade developed throughout the Indian subcontinent[1] and Middle East by at earliest 2000 BCE with cinnamon and black pepper, and in East Asia with herbs and pepper. The Egyptians used herbs for mummification and their demand for exotic spices and herbs helped stimulate world trade. The word spice comes from the Old French word espice, which became epice, and which came from the Latin root spec, the noun referring to "appearance, sort, kind": species has the same root. By 1000 BCE, medical systems based upon herbs could be found in China, Korea, and India. Early uses were connected with magic, medicine, religion, tradition, and preservation.[2]
Cloves were used in Mesopotamia by 1700 BCE.[note 1] The ancient Indian epic Ramayana mentions cloves. The Romans had cloves in the 1st century CE, as Pliny the Elder wrote about them.[4]
The earliest written records of spices come from ancient Egyptian, Chinese, and Indian cultures. The Ebers Papyrus from Early Egyptians that dates from 1550 B.C.E. describes some eight hundred different medicinal remedies and numerous medicinal procedures.[5]
Historians believe that nutmeg, which originates from the Banda Islands in Southeast Asia, was introduced to Europe in the 6th century BCE.[6]
Indonesian merchants traveled around China, India, the Middle East, and the east coast of Africa. Arab merchants facilitated the routes through the Middle East and India. This resulted in the Egyptian port city of Alexandria being the main trading center for spices. The most important discovery prior to the European spice trade were the monsoon winds (40 CE). Sailing from Eastern spice cultivators to Western European consumers gradually replaced the land-locked spice routes once facilitated by the Middle East Arab caravans.[2]
In the story of Genesis), Joseph) was sold into slavery by his brothers to spice merchants. In the biblical poem Song of Solomon, the male speaker compares his beloved to many forms of spices.
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2020.07.11 10:40 360casinogamingg Gambling Games In India

Gambling games and India:

Games of chance have always attracted passionate players and the appeal of Lady Luck never seemed to dwindle. They have thrived for thousands of years, even before written history and up to modern times when we can indulge in gambling on our electronic devices without even having to walk to the nearest casino establishment. Games have changed and flourished, but the passion for playing remained the same. India is a country that boasts a rich history when it comes to gambling and still nurtures a strong passion for it in various forms and guises. That said, it’s well worth taking a glance at the origins of casino games and how and where it all began.
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Gambling stories of ancient India
The Ramayana (one of two major Sanskrit epics of ancient India) cites certain forms of games of chance believed to date back as far as 7300 BC. It describes gambling boards, believed by some to be the game of chess, as well as gambling with dice. The popular saying ‘to lose one’s shirt’, meaning to lose money, originated in ancient India. The old Sanskrit texts compare trees that have been stripped of their fruit to defeated gamblers who lost their clothes and ornaments in a wager.
While the Ramayana casually mentions gambling and does not condone it in any sense of the word, the second epic (the Mahabharata) tells a different story. The main antagonist, Shakuni, arranges a dice game against king Yudhishthira whom he cheated out of all his wealth and kingdom. When another antagonist, Duryodhana, insisted that there was no place for two crown princes in the kingdom, another dice game was arranged which ended in the exile of the royal family.
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First Gambling Devices
Buddhist texts mention Indians gambling with nuts as dice as early as 300 BC. Apart from being fond of dice, Indians developed a taste for gambling on animals. At first, ram and cockfights were all the rage which was followed by the more sophisticated horse racing later. What is interesting is that while Europeans are generally given credit for developing certain games of chance, most of the earlier versions of gambling devices had Indian symbols on them.
Further Progress
The 15th century witnessed the rise of legal gambling houses all across India. They were heavily regulated to make sure the games were fair and square so that the players would willingly submit their dues to the king. This was the beginning of the first gambling tax.
When the British introduced cricket to India in the 18th century, Indians fell completely in love with the game. Cricket paved the way for sports betting which flourished in the country until the British took over and passed the Gambling Act in 1867 which outlawed all games of chance. Although they couldn’t abolish the games which still went on in secret, India never looked favorably on gambling again.
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Present-day Gambling
The perspective of the Indian government on gambling is that it is the temptation that lures players to bet beyond their means, ruining their lives and their families. India’s 29 states and seven Union territories have the authority to decide whether to legalize gambling or not. Each state has a different legislative council and even though most of them do not support it, they do allow some forms of it, such as betting on horse races and the lottery. Since gambling restrictions are still in effect to a large extent, many have turned to online options and can choose from some of the best online casinos for India to scratch that itch. Almost 40% of internet users in the country have admitted to spending some of their time playing online casino games with no particular intention of earning large sums of money, but just to have fun and pass the time.
The history of India, which is almost 4000 years long, is brimming with amusing anecdotes of gamblers winning and losing in their favorite games. However, the future might not have as much room for such stories, since the gambling ban is still in effect. The Indian government still doesn’t trust its people to use their own judgment and roll the dice deciding their own fate. If the rules should ever change, the casino industry will be able to boost the Indian economy to a great extent. The people will enjoy their games while the country reaps the benefits. Some would say, a win-win situation.

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2020.06.09 07:29 fullautomatix Dating of Sanskrit texts Ramayana and Mahabharata

In both the Ramayana and Mahabharata, the two major texts of Sanatan Dharma, there are copious references to astronomical observations as events unfold. Along with these, are detailed descriptions of towns, villages, rivers, forests, hills many of which can be identified today by name and location in the Indian subcontinent, ranging from Tibet to Sri Lanka and from Assam to Balochistan. Astrological observations provide perhaps the most accurate dating when triangulated and can be cross checked on software like Skymap. They provide a very plausible time flow as say, Lord Rama marched from North to South. Recent archaeological digs also tend to corroborate the general flow of growing historical evidence on the real history of India that is far more reliable and defensible than the vague theories like the Aryan Invasion Theory (later changed to Aryan Migration Theory as the invasion bit fell apart on total lack of evidence). These theories have been comprehensively discredited.
These observations seem to date the Ramayana at 12,000 BC and the Mahabharata at 5,500 BC. The AIT/AMT is dated at 1,500 BC, many thousands of years later.
Now the term "Indo-European" should not be junked based on this new information because there is an emerging theory, again very reliable and rational, called "Out of India" that explains the term. That is, the people of the Indian subcontinent moved west and northwards into Europe. This fits with the genetic data that is coming out that supports the position that Indian nomads who spoke local languages and not Sanskrit, moved to Europe thousands of years ago. The smaller incursion of Alexander into India is an entirely different matter.
I'd appreciate input from this sub on this.
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2020.05.19 14:22 panditji_reloaded Today is Shri Nathuram Godse's 110th Birth Anniversary. Please read his final statement to court before he was hanged.

Nathuram Godse: 'May it Please Your Honour', Why I killed Gandhi - 1948

5 May 1949, Punjab High Court, Peterhoff, Simia, India
Nathuram Godse assassinated Gandhiji on 30 January 1948. The trial began on 27 May 1948 and concluded on 10 February 1949. He was sentenced to death.
An appeal to the Punjab High Court, then in session at Simla, did not find favour and the sentence was upheld. This statement is the last made by Godse before the Court.
WHY I KILLED GANDHI
Born in a devotional Brahmin family, I instinctively came to revere Hindu religion, Hindu history and Hindu culture. I had, therefore, been intensely proud of Hinduism as a whole. As I grew up I developed a tendency to free thinking unfettered by any superstitious allegiance to any isms, political or religious. That is why I worked actively for the eradication of untouchability and the caste system based on birth alone. I openly joined RSS wing of anti-caste movements and maintained that all Hindus were of equal status as to rights, social and religious and should be considered high or low on merit alone and not through the accident of birth in a particular caste or profession.
I used publicly to take part in organized anti-caste dinners in which thousands of Hindus, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, Chamars and Bhangis participated. We broke the caste rules and dined in the company of each other. I have read the speeches and writings of Ravana, Chanakiya, Dadabhai Naoroji, Vivekanand, Gokhale, Tilak, along with the books of ancient and modern history of India and some prominent countries like England , France , America and Russia . Moreover I studied the tenets of Socialism and Marxism. But above all I studied very closely whatever Veer Savarkar and Gandhiji had written and spoken, as to my mind these two ideologies have contributed more to the moulding of the thought and action of the Indian people during the last thirty years or so, than any other single factor has done.
All this reading and thinking led me to believe it was my first duty to serve Hindudom and Hindus both as a patriot and as a world citizen. To secure the freedom and to safeguard the just interests of some thirty crores (300 million) of Hindus would automatically constitute the freedom and the well-being of all India , one fifth of human race. This conviction led me naturally to devote myself to the Hindu Sanghtanist ideology and programme, which alone, I came to believe, could win and preserve the national independence of Hindustan , my Motherland, and enable her to render true service to humanity as well.
Since the year 1920, that is, after the demise of Lokamanya Tilak, Gandhiji’s influence in the Congress first increased and then became supreme. His activities for public awakening were phenomenal in their intensity and were reinforced by the slogan of truth and non-violence which he paraded ostentatiously before the country. No sensible or enlightened person could object to those slogans. In fact there is nothing new or original in them.. They are implicit in every constitutional public movement. But it is nothing but a mere dream if you imagine that the bulk of mankind is, or can ever become, capable of scrupulous adherence to these lofty principles in its normal life from day to day.
In fact, honour, duty and love of one’s own kith and kin and country might often compel us to disregard non-violence and to use force. I could never conceive that an armed resistance to an aggression is unjust. I would consider it a religious and moral duty to resist and, if possible, to overpower such an enemy by use of force. [In the Ramayana] Rama killed Ravana in a tumultuous fight and relieved Sita.. [In the Mahabharata], Krishna killed Kansa to end his wickedness; and Arjuna had to fight and slay quite a number of his friends and relations including the revered Bhishma because the latter was on the side of the aggressor. It is my firm belief that in dubbing Rama, Krishna and Arjuna as guilty of violence, the Mahatma betrayed a total ignorance of the springs of human action. In more recent history, it was the heroic fight put up by Chhatrapati Shivaji that first checked and eventually destroyed the Muslim tyranny in India . It was absolutely essentially for Shivaji to overpower and kill an aggressive Afzal Khan, failing which he would have lost his own life. In condemning history’s towering warriors like Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Gobind Singh as misguided patriots, Gandhiji has merely exposed his self-conceit. He was, paradoxical as it may appear, a violent pacifist who brought untold calamities on the country in the name of truth and non-violence, while Rana Pratap, Shivaji and the Guru will remain enshrined in the hearts of their countrymen for ever for the freedom they brought to them.
The accumulating provocation of thirty-two years, culminating in his last pro-Muslim fast, at last goaded me to the conclusion that the existence of Gandhi should be brought to an end immediately. Gandhi had done very good in South Africa to uphold the rights and well-being of the Indian community there. But when he finally returned to India he developed a subjective mentality under which he alone was to be the final judge of what was right or wrong. If the country wanted his leadership, it had to accept his infallibility; if it did not, he would stand aloof from the Congress and carry on his own way.
Against such an attitude there can be no halfway house. Either Congress had to surrender its will to his and had to be content with playing second fiddle to all his eccentricity, whimsicality, metaphysics and primitive vision, or it had to carry on without him. He alone was the Judge of everyone and every thing; he was the master brain guiding the civil disobedience movement; no other could know the technique of that movement. He alone knew when to begin and when to withdraw it. The movement might succeed or fail, it might bring untold disaster and political reverses but that could make no difference to the Mahatma’s infallibility. ‘A Satyagrahi can never fail’ was his formula for declaring his own infallibility and nobody except himself knew what a Satyagrahi is. Thus, the Mahatma became the judge and jury in his own cause. These childish insanities and obstinacies, coupled with a most severe austerity of life, ceaseless work and lofty character made Gandhi formidable and irresistible.
Many people thought that his politics were irrational but they had either to withdraw from the Congress or place their intelligence at his feet to do with as he liked. In a position of such absolute irresponsibility Gandhi was guilty of blunder after blunder, failure after failure, disaster after disaster. Gandhi’s pro-Muslim policy is blatantly in his perverse attitude on the question of the national language of India . It is quite obvious that Hindi has the most prior claim to be accepted as the premier language. In the beginning of his career in India , Gandhi gave a great impetus to Hindi but as he found that the Muslims did not like it, he became a champion of what is called Hindustani.. Everybody in India knows that there is no language called Hindustani; it has no grammar; it has no vocabulary. It is a mere dialect, it is spoken, but not written. It is a bastard tongue and cross-breed between Hindi and Urdu, and not even the Mahatma’s sophistry could make it popular. But in his desire to please the Muslims he insisted that Hindustani alone should be the national language of India . His blind followers, of course, supported him and the so-called hybrid language began to be used. The charm and purity of the Hindi language was to be prostituted to please the Muslims. All his experiments were at the expense of the Hindus.
From August 1946 onwards the private armies of the Muslim League began a massacre of the Hindus. The then Viceroy, Lord Wavell, though distressed at what was happening, would not use his powers under the Government of India Act of 1935 to prevent the rape, murder and arson. The Hindu blood began to flow from Bengal to Karachi with some retaliation by the Hindus. The Interim Government formed in September was sabotaged by its Muslim League members right from its inception, but the more they became disloyal and treasonable to the government of which they were a part, the greater was Gandhi’s infatuation for them. Lord Wavell had to resign as he could not bring about a settlement and he was succeeded by Lord Mountbatten. King Log was followed by King Stork. The Congress which had boasted of its nationalism and socialism secretly accepted Pakistan literally at the point of the bayonet and abjectly surrendered to Jinnah. India was vivisected and one-third of the Indian territory became foreign land to us from August 15, 1947.
Lord Mountbatten came to be described in Congress circles as the greatest Viceroy and Governor-General this country ever had. The official date for handing over power was fixed for June 30, 1948, but Mountbatten with his ruthless surgery gave us a gift of vivisected India ten months in advance. This is what Gandhi had achieved after thirty years of undisputed dictatorship and this is what Congress party calls ‘freedom’ and ‘peaceful transfer of power’. The Hindu-Muslim unity bubble was finally burst and a theocratic state was established with the consent of Nehru and his crowd and they have called ‘freedom won by them with sacrifice’ – whose sacrifice? When top leaders of Congress, with the consent of Gandhi, divided and tore the country – which we consider a deity of worship – my mind was filled with direful anger.
One of the conditions imposed by Gandhi for his breaking of the fast unto death related to the mosques in Delhi occupied by the Hindu refugees. But when Hindus in Pakistan were subjected to violent attacks he did not so much as utter a single word to protest and censure the Pakistan Government or the Muslims concerned. Gandhi was shrewd enough to know that while undertaking a fast unto death, had he imposed for its break some condition on the Muslims in Pakistan , there would have been found hardly any Muslims who could have shown some grief if the fast had ended in his death. It was for this reason that he purposely avoided imposing any condition on the Muslims. He was fully aware of from the experience that Jinnah was not at all perturbed or influenced by his fast and the Muslim League hardly attached any value to the inner voice of Gandhi.
Gandhi is being referred to as the Father of the Nation. But if that is so, he had failed his paternal duty inasmuch as he has acted very treacherously to the nation by his consenting to the partitioning of it. I stoutly maintain that Gandhi has failed in his duty. He has proved to be the Father of Pakistan. His inner-voice, his spiritual power and his doctrine of non-violence of which so much is made of, all crumbled before Jinnah’s iron will and proved to be powerless. Briefly speaking, I thought to myself and foresaw I shall be totally ruined, and the only thing I could expect from the people would be nothing but hatred and that I shall have lost all my honour, even more valuable than my life, if I were to kill Gandhiji. But at the same time I felt that the Indian politics in the absence of Gandhiji would surely be proved practical, able to retaliate, and would be powerful with armed forces. No doubt, my own future would be totally ruined, but the nation would be saved from the inroads of Pakistan . People may even call me and dub me as devoid of any sense or foolish, but the nation would be free to follow the course founded on the reason which I consider to be necessary for sound nation-building.
After having fully considered the question, I took the final decision in the matter, but I did not speak about it to anyone whatsoever. I took courage in both my hands and I did fire the shots at Gandhiji on 30th January 1948, on the prayer-grounds of Birla House. I do say that my shots were fired at the person whose policy and action had brought rack and ruin and destruction to millions of Hindus. There was no legal machinery by which such an offender could be brought to book and for this reason I fired those fatal shots. I bear no ill will towards anyone individually but I do say that I had no respect for the present government owing to their policy which was unfairly favourable towards the Muslims. But at the same time I could clearly see that the policy was entirely due to the presence of Gandhi.
I have to say with great regret that Prime Minister Nehru quite forgets that his preachings and deeds are at times at variances with each other when he talks about India as a secular state in season and out of season, because it is significant to note that Nehru has played a leading role in the establishment of the theocratic state of Pakistan, and his job was made easier by Gandhi’s persistent policy of appeasement towards the Muslims. I now stand before the court to accept the full share of my responsibility for what I have done and the judge would, of course, pass against me such orders of sentence as may be considered proper. But I would like to add that I do not desire any mercy to be shown to me, nor do I wish that anyone else should beg for mercy on my behalf. My confidence about the moral side of my action has not been shaken even by the criticism levelled against it on all sides. I have no doubt that honest writers of history will weigh my act and find the true value thereof some day in future.
submitted by panditji_reloaded to IndiaSpeaks [link] [comments]


2020.05.19 14:21 panditji_reloaded Today is Shri Nathuram Godse's 110th Birth Anniversary. Please read his final statement to court before he was hanged.

Nathuram Godse: 'May it Please Your Honour', Why I killed Gandhi - 1948

5 May 1949, Punjab High Court, Peterhoff, Simia, India
Nathuram Godse assassinated Gandhiji on 30 January 1948. The trial began on 27 May 1948 and concluded on 10 February 1949. He was sentenced to death.
An appeal to the Punjab High Court, then in session at Simla, did not find favour and the sentence was upheld. This statement is the last made by Godse before the Court.
WHY I KILLED GANDHI
Born in a devotional Brahmin family, I instinctively came to revere Hindu religion, Hindu history and Hindu culture. I had, therefore, been intensely proud of Hinduism as a whole. As I grew up I developed a tendency to free thinking unfettered by any superstitious allegiance to any isms, political or religious. That is why I worked actively for the eradication of untouchability and the caste system based on birth alone. I openly joined RSS wing of anti-caste movements and maintained that all Hindus were of equal status as to rights, social and religious and should be considered high or low on merit alone and not through the accident of birth in a particular caste or profession.
I used publicly to take part in organized anti-caste dinners in which thousands of Hindus, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, Chamars and Bhangis participated. We broke the caste rules and dined in the company of each other. I have read the speeches and writings of Ravana, Chanakiya, Dadabhai Naoroji, Vivekanand, Gokhale, Tilak, along with the books of ancient and modern history of India and some prominent countries like England , France , America and Russia . Moreover I studied the tenets of Socialism and Marxism. But above all I studied very closely whatever Veer Savarkar and Gandhiji had written and spoken, as to my mind these two ideologies have contributed more to the moulding of the thought and action of the Indian people during the last thirty years or so, than any other single factor has done.
All this reading and thinking led me to believe it was my first duty to serve Hindudom and Hindus both as a patriot and as a world citizen. To secure the freedom and to safeguard the just interests of some thirty crores (300 million) of Hindus would automatically constitute the freedom and the well-being of all India , one fifth of human race. This conviction led me naturally to devote myself to the Hindu Sanghtanist ideology and programme, which alone, I came to believe, could win and preserve the national independence of Hindustan , my Motherland, and enable her to render true service to humanity as well.
Since the year 1920, that is, after the demise of Lokamanya Tilak, Gandhiji’s influence in the Congress first increased and then became supreme. His activities for public awakening were phenomenal in their intensity and were reinforced by the slogan of truth and non-violence which he paraded ostentatiously before the country. No sensible or enlightened person could object to those slogans. In fact there is nothing new or original in them.. They are implicit in every constitutional public movement. But it is nothing but a mere dream if you imagine that the bulk of mankind is, or can ever become, capable of scrupulous adherence to these lofty principles in its normal life from day to day.
In fact, honour, duty and love of one’s own kith and kin and country might often compel us to disregard non-violence and to use force. I could never conceive that an armed resistance to an aggression is unjust. I would consider it a religious and moral duty to resist and, if possible, to overpower such an enemy by use of force. [In the Ramayana] Rama killed Ravana in a tumultuous fight and relieved Sita.. [In the Mahabharata], Krishna killed Kansa to end his wickedness; and Arjuna had to fight and slay quite a number of his friends and relations including the revered Bhishma because the latter was on the side of the aggressor. It is my firm belief that in dubbing Rama, Krishna and Arjuna as guilty of violence, the Mahatma betrayed a total ignorance of the springs of human action. In more recent history, it was the heroic fight put up by Chhatrapati Shivaji that first checked and eventually destroyed the Muslim tyranny in India . It was absolutely essentially for Shivaji to overpower and kill an aggressive Afzal Khan, failing which he would have lost his own life. In condemning history’s towering warriors like Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Gobind Singh as misguided patriots, Gandhiji has merely exposed his self-conceit. He was, paradoxical as it may appear, a violent pacifist who brought untold calamities on the country in the name of truth and non-violence, while Rana Pratap, Shivaji and the Guru will remain enshrined in the hearts of their countrymen for ever for the freedom they brought to them.
The accumulating provocation of thirty-two years, culminating in his last pro-Muslim fast, at last goaded me to the conclusion that the existence of Gandhi should be brought to an end immediately. Gandhi had done very good in South Africa to uphold the rights and well-being of the Indian community there. But when he finally returned to India he developed a subjective mentality under which he alone was to be the final judge of what was right or wrong. If the country wanted his leadership, it had to accept his infallibility; if it did not, he would stand aloof from the Congress and carry on his own way.
Against such an attitude there can be no halfway house. Either Congress had to surrender its will to his and had to be content with playing second fiddle to all his eccentricity, whimsicality, metaphysics and primitive vision, or it had to carry on without him. He alone was the Judge of everyone and every thing; he was the master brain guiding the civil disobedience movement; no other could know the technique of that movement. He alone knew when to begin and when to withdraw it. The movement might succeed or fail, it might bring untold disaster and political reverses but that could make no difference to the Mahatma’s infallibility. ‘A Satyagrahi can never fail’ was his formula for declaring his own infallibility and nobody except himself knew what a Satyagrahi is. Thus, the Mahatma became the judge and jury in his own cause. These childish insanities and obstinacies, coupled with a most severe austerity of life, ceaseless work and lofty character made Gandhi formidable and irresistible.
Many people thought that his politics were irrational but they had either to withdraw from the Congress or place their intelligence at his feet to do with as he liked. In a position of such absolute irresponsibility Gandhi was guilty of blunder after blunder, failure after failure, disaster after disaster. Gandhi’s pro-Muslim policy is blatantly in his perverse attitude on the question of the national language of India . It is quite obvious that Hindi has the most prior claim to be accepted as the premier language. In the beginning of his career in India , Gandhi gave a great impetus to Hindi but as he found that the Muslims did not like it, he became a champion of what is called Hindustani.. Everybody in India knows that there is no language called Hindustani; it has no grammar; it has no vocabulary. It is a mere dialect, it is spoken, but not written. It is a bastard tongue and cross-breed between Hindi and Urdu, and not even the Mahatma’s sophistry could make it popular. But in his desire to please the Muslims he insisted that Hindustani alone should be the national language of India . His blind followers, of course, supported him and the so-called hybrid language began to be used. The charm and purity of the Hindi language was to be prostituted to please the Muslims. All his experiments were at the expense of the Hindus.
From August 1946 onwards the private armies of the Muslim League began a massacre of the Hindus. The then Viceroy, Lord Wavell, though distressed at what was happening, would not use his powers under the Government of India Act of 1935 to prevent the rape, murder and arson. The Hindu blood began to flow from Bengal to Karachi with some retaliation by the Hindus. The Interim Government formed in September was sabotaged by its Muslim League members right from its inception, but the more they became disloyal and treasonable to the government of which they were a part, the greater was Gandhi’s infatuation for them. Lord Wavell had to resign as he could not bring about a settlement and he was succeeded by Lord Mountbatten. King Log was followed by King Stork. The Congress which had boasted of its nationalism and socialism secretly accepted Pakistan literally at the point of the bayonet and abjectly surrendered to Jinnah. India was vivisected and one-third of the Indian territory became foreign land to us from August 15, 1947.
Lord Mountbatten came to be described in Congress circles as the greatest Viceroy and Governor-General this country ever had. The official date for handing over power was fixed for June 30, 1948, but Mountbatten with his ruthless surgery gave us a gift of vivisected India ten months in advance. This is what Gandhi had achieved after thirty years of undisputed dictatorship and this is what Congress party calls ‘freedom’ and ‘peaceful transfer of power’. The Hindu-Muslim unity bubble was finally burst and a theocratic state was established with the consent of Nehru and his crowd and they have called ‘freedom won by them with sacrifice’ – whose sacrifice? When top leaders of Congress, with the consent of Gandhi, divided and tore the country – which we consider a deity of worship – my mind was filled with direful anger.
One of the conditions imposed by Gandhi for his breaking of the fast unto death related to the mosques in Delhi occupied by the Hindu refugees. But when Hindus in Pakistan were subjected to violent attacks he did not so much as utter a single word to protest and censure the Pakistan Government or the Muslims concerned. Gandhi was shrewd enough to know that while undertaking a fast unto death, had he imposed for its break some condition on the Muslims in Pakistan , there would have been found hardly any Muslims who could have shown some grief if the fast had ended in his death. It was for this reason that he purposely avoided imposing any condition on the Muslims. He was fully aware of from the experience that Jinnah was not at all perturbed or influenced by his fast and the Muslim League hardly attached any value to the inner voice of Gandhi.
Gandhi is being referred to as the Father of the Nation. But if that is so, he had failed his paternal duty inasmuch as he has acted very treacherously to the nation by his consenting to the partitioning of it. I stoutly maintain that Gandhi has failed in his duty. He has proved to be the Father of Pakistan. His inner-voice, his spiritual power and his doctrine of non-violence of which so much is made of, all crumbled before Jinnah’s iron will and proved to be powerless. Briefly speaking, I thought to myself and foresaw I shall be totally ruined, and the only thing I could expect from the people would be nothing but hatred and that I shall have lost all my honour, even more valuable than my life, if I were to kill Gandhiji. But at the same time I felt that the Indian politics in the absence of Gandhiji would surely be proved practical, able to retaliate, and would be powerful with armed forces. No doubt, my own future would be totally ruined, but the nation would be saved from the inroads of Pakistan . People may even call me and dub me as devoid of any sense or foolish, but the nation would be free to follow the course founded on the reason which I consider to be necessary for sound nation-building.
After having fully considered the question, I took the final decision in the matter, but I did not speak about it to anyone whatsoever. I took courage in both my hands and I did fire the shots at Gandhiji on 30th January 1948, on the prayer-grounds of Birla House. I do say that my shots were fired at the person whose policy and action had brought rack and ruin and destruction to millions of Hindus. There was no legal machinery by which such an offender could be brought to book and for this reason I fired those fatal shots. I bear no ill will towards anyone individually but I do say that I had no respect for the present government owing to their policy which was unfairly favourable towards the Muslims. But at the same time I could clearly see that the policy was entirely due to the presence of Gandhi.
I have to say with great regret that Prime Minister Nehru quite forgets that his preachings and deeds are at times at variances with each other when he talks about India as a secular state in season and out of season, because it is significant to note that Nehru has played a leading role in the establishment of the theocratic state of Pakistan, and his job was made easier by Gandhi’s persistent policy of appeasement towards the Muslims. I now stand before the court to accept the full share of my responsibility for what I have done and the judge would, of course, pass against me such orders of sentence as may be considered proper. But I would like to add that I do not desire any mercy to be shown to me, nor do I wish that anyone else should beg for mercy on my behalf. My confidence about the moral side of my action has not been shaken even by the criticism levelled against it on all sides. I have no doubt that honest writers of history will weigh my act and find the true value thereof some day in future.
submitted by panditji_reloaded to indianews [link] [comments]


2020.04.26 22:31 PuranicScholar Agni Purana

Agni Purana, one of the major eighteen Puranas, contains descriptions and details of various incarnations (avatars) of Vishnu. It also has details account about Rama, Krishna, Prithvi, and the stars. It has a number of verses dealing with ritual worship, cosmology, history, warfare, and even sections on Sanskrit grammar, meter, law, medicine, and martial arts. Tradition has it that it was originally recited by Agni to the sage Vasishta.
Its composition is either dated to the 8th-9th century or the 10th-11th century
Agni Purana is the celebration of Agni the Fire God. He is the most revered deity among Hindu pantheons. Numerous hymns have been dedicated to Him in Vedas. Agni is closest to mankind among all divine icons because of its indispensability in daily life. That is why it is worshipped more at home than in temples. This scripture will introduce Agni with its multi-dimensional grandaunt from birth to death.
Hindu Puranas are the best fusion of Indian ethos and literature. They contain the triumphs and tribulations of mankind. The Eighteen Puranas relate the tales of duty and action, sins and virtues through the life and events of divine icons.
The contents of Agni Puran
The presently available Agni Purana consists 383 chapters. The last chapter of the text gives a list of fifty topics discussed in the text. After the customary opening (chapter 1), the text describes the ten avataras of Vishnu in detail.
Chapters 2-4 deal with the Matsya, the Kurma and the Varaha avatars respectively.
Next seven chapters (5-11) are the summaries of the seven Kandas of the Ramayana.
Chapter 12 is a summary of the Harivamsha.
Chapters 13-15 narrate the story of the Mahabharata.
Chapter 16 describes Buddha and Kalki as the avatars of Vishnu.
Chapters 17-20 describe the five essential characteristics of a Purana.
Chapters 21-70 consist a discussion between Narada, Agni, Hayagriva and Bhagavan. These chapters deal with the religious bathing, construction of a Kunda (sacrificial pit), the Mudras (the positions of fingers during worship), the mode of worship of Vasudeva, Samkarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha, consecration of an image, architecture of a temple, iconography of the images, the worship of Salagrama, the rules for the installation of the images and repair of a temple.
The subject of chapter 71 is the worship of Ganesha.
Chapters 72-105 relate to the worship of the Linga and the several manifestations of Devi. These chapters also contain the discussions on the method of establishing Agni (sacrificial fire), Canda worship, Kapila worship and consecration of a temple.
Chapter 106 discusses about the Vastu related to the cities.
Chapter 107 is devoted to the creation of Svayambhuva Manu.
Chapter 108 is the Bhuvana-Kosha (the description of the universe).
Chapters 109-116 describe a number of the Tirthas.
Chapter 117 deals with the ancestral rites.
Chapters 118-120 describe the Puranic concepts on the geography of India and the other parts of the world and also the Puranic perceptions about the distances between various regions of the world.
Chapters 121-149 deal with various aspects of astronomy and astrology.
Chapter 150 deals with the periods of the Manvantaras and the names of the Manus.
Chapters 151-167 deal with the duties associated the different Varnas.
Chapters 168-174 discuss about the expiations for various kinds of sins.
Chapter 175-207 describe about the performances of a number of Vratas.
Chapters 208-217 describe about various religious gifts and vows.
Chapters 218-248 deal with the various aspects of the statecraft.
Chapters 249-252 discuss in details about archery and the weapons associated with it.
Chapters 254-258 discuss on the vyavahara (judicature and law). This part of the text is literally same as the Mitakshara.
The next chapters (259-271) deal with miscellaneous topics regarding the perusal of the Vedas.
Chapter 272 deals with the gifts to be made when the Puranas are read. This chapter contains a list of the Puranas and the number of verses each Purana contains.
Chapters 273-278 deal with the genealogy of the Puranic dynasties.
Chapters 279-300 deal with the various branches of medicine.
Chapters 301-316 deal with the worship of Surya and various mantras (chants), out of which chapters 309-314 deal with the mantras for worshipping of the goddess Tvarita.
In Chapters 317-326 Ishvara speaks to Skanda regarding the worship of Shiva’s ganas, Vagishvari, Aghora, Pashupata, Rudra and Gauri.
Chapter 327 consists the glorification of establishing a linga in a temple.
Chapters 328-335 summarise Pingala sutras on metrics and an unknown commentary on it.
Chapter 336 has rudimentary discussion about Vedic phonetics.
The subject of the next two chapters (337-337) is poetics and rhetoric.
Chapter 338 contains a list of the different types of Sanskrit drama.
Chapters 339-340 deal with the four ritis (styles) of displaying sentiments and emotions during acting and
chapters 341-342 discuss about the actions and movements of the limbs of an actor and the definitions of the dramatic representations.
The discussions regarding the various figures of speech are found in chapters 343-345. The definitions found in these chapters are same as those of Kavyadarsha of Dandin.
The merits and demerits of a composition are discussed in chapters 346-347.
Chapter 348 consists a list of monosyllabic words.
The following chapters (349-359) deal with the rules of Sanskrit grammar, which is an abstract of the Chandra Vyakarana.
Chapters 360-367 are basically a lexicon on the pattern of the Amarakosha.
Chapters 369-370 consist the discussions on human anatomy. Chapter 371 describes various types of Narakas.
Chapters 372-376 deal with both the Raja-yoga and the Hatha-yoga.
The subject of the chapters 377-380 is the philosophy of Vedanta and the knowledge of Brahma.
Chapter 381 consists a gist of the Bhagavadgita.
Chapter 382 is a version of the Yamagita and
chapter 383 contains the verses describing the glorification of the Agni Purana.
https://www.vyasaonline.com/agni-purana/
submitted by PuranicScholar to TheAgniPurana [link] [comments]


2020.04.26 15:45 TrueIndologyBot @NMAdhikary @babashyamdev_ There is no single standard manuscript of Natyashastra. It was compiled, recompiled, interpolated and differs from place to place. The extant version of Natyashastra is dated between 1st cent BC and 8th century CE. It is certainly later than Valmiki Ramayana https://t.c

@NMAdhikary @babashyamdev_ There is no single standard manuscript of Natyashastra. It was compiled, recompiled, interpolated and differs from place to place. The extant version of Natyashastra is dated between 1st cent BC and 8th century CE. It is certainly later than Valmiki Ramayana https://t.c submitted by TrueIndologyBot to trueindology [link] [comments]


2020.04.25 06:50 ekmalsukarno Explaining Indonesia's ethnic/religious/cultural/linguistic diversity to Malaysians

As a Malaysian, one thing you Indonesians have to be aware of is that Malaysians (both Malay and non-Malay) are completely ignorant of the ethnic, religious, cultural and linguistic diversity of Indonesia. They all assume that all Indonesians are ethnically Malay (because the Indonesian language is based off of the Malay language), they are all Muslim and they all facially look alike, and that Chinese-Indonesians, and to an extent the Hindu Balinese, are the only exception.
My fellow Malaysians think that just because Javanese, Minangkabau, Malays, Bugis, etc, facially look alike and practise Islam, that means that there are no differences (both cultural and linguistic) between them at all, which of course is not true. If Malay speakers in Malaysia were spoken to in either Acehnese, Minangkabau, Sundanese, Javanese, Balinese, Buginese, etc, they would not understand a thing.
They also think that just because most Indonesian pribumis facially look like Malaysian Malays, that means that all of them are Muslim, and it's impossible for them to be Hindu or Christian, which to me is just narrow-minded thinking. Also, Malaysians (both Malay and non-Malay) are completely ignorant of the existence of the people of East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku and Papua (to explain to Malaysians, these areas are located east of Lombok and Sulawesi), whose facial and physical appearance is unlike the rest of Indonesia.
If you Indonesians want to educate my fellow Malaysians on how diverse Indonesia is (in terms of ethnicity, religion, culture and language), you have to mention to them these following pieces of information:
- Even though the majority (if not the vast majority) of Indonesians physically and facially resemble the ethnic Malays, not all of them share the same mother tongue and not all of them practise Islam. There are even lots of people in Malaysian Borneo who physically and facially resemble the ethnic Malays, yet they do not share the same mother tongue, and most of them are Christian (such as the Iban and Kadazan). There are even lots of people in Malaysian Borneo who, despite following the same Islamic faith as the ethnic Malays (such as the Melanau and Bajau), not all of them share the same mother tongue as the ethnic Malays.
- The Batak people are the only pribumi (in Malaysia they are called bumiputra) people in Sumatra that are predominantly Christian, and they can be found in the province of North Sumatra, where Medan is the capital.
- The Acehnese are the strictest and most extremist out of all Muslims in Indonesia, which explains why Aceh is the only province of Indonesia that follows Sharia law.
- Although the Minangkabau people in the province of West Sumatra and neighbouring provinces are predominantly Muslim, they follow a matrilineal culture where property and family lineage are passed down from mother to daughter.
- If Malaysians want to look for ethnic Malays in Indonesia, they have to go the eastern half of Sumatra (by that I mean, the parts of Sumatra that are close enough to the east coast), as well as the southern provinces of Sumatra, and also the Riau Islands, the Bangka-Belitung Islands and the coastal areas of Kalimantan.
- Not all Javanese (and maybe also Sundanese) are Muslim. There are noticeable fractions of Javanese and Sundanese who practise other religions such as Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism.
- Unlike Malay culture which has way more Islamic influence than Hindu-Buddhist influence, Javanese and Sundanese culture has way more Hindu-Buddhist influence than Islamic influence. This explains why many Indonesian Muslims have Hindu-Buddhist names like Wisnu, Chandra, Mahendra, etc, why wayang kulit plays still tell stories of the Mahabharata and Ramayana, and why all Indonesians, regardless of religious background, greet people by using the Hindu-Buddhist hand greeting (known in Indonesia as salam sembah). It also explains why Indonesia's coat of arms contains the Garuda bird, a Hindu-Buddhist icon, and why Indonesia's national political philosophy consists of a Sanskrit name (of course I'm referring to Pancasila)
- In Kalimantan, there are the Dayak people, which can also be found in Malaysian Borneo, and both Malaysian and Indonesian Dayak are either predominantly Christian or animist. The main difference is that Dayaks in Malaysia and Indonesia are divided into different groups. For example, Malaysian Dayaks are divided into the Iban, Murut, etc, whilst Indonesian Dayaks are divided into the Ngaju, Ma'anyan, etc.
- Although Malaysians may be familiar with Bali, they may not know that most Balinese people follow Hinduism, let alone the fact that Balinese Hinduism, like in the rest of Indonesia, is very different from how Hinduism is practised in India.
- Although the Bugis people in South Sulawesi are predominantly Muslim, they believe in this system of five genders, even if it may contradict the teachings of Islam.
- In the province of South Sulawesi, there is an ethnic group called the Toraja who, despite being predominantly Christian, practise this ritual of not only living with the corpses of their deceased family members, but also clothing them, feeding them, basically treating them as if they were still alive.
- In the province of North Sulawesi, there is an ethnic group called the Minahasa. They are predominantly Christian, and like the Dayaks, they often perform warrior dances involving spears, shields and feather headdresses. The only differences are that Minahasa headdresses are made up of different feathers, and traditional clothing is mostly red-coloured.
- Religion in Indonesia is not necessarily tied to one's ethnicity. For example, even though Malays, Minangkabaus, Acehnese, Bugis, etc, are predominantly Muslim, among these ethnic groups there are small numbers who are Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, etc. The same thing could be said for the Balinese, among whom a few are Christian or Muslim. There are even small numbers of Dayaks who are Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim, as well as some Bataks who are either Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim. In fact, the Mandailing people are predominantly Muslim, despite being a sub-group of the Batak people, who are predominantly Christian. In addition, Indonesia has no laws that prohibit Muslims from converting to other religions, unlike in Malaysia.
- Although the Sasak people of Lombok are predominantly Muslim, a noticeable amount of them follow the Wetu Telu variant of Islam, in which it is obligatory to pray only three times a day, instead of five. Plus, the Sasak language is more mutually intelligible with Balinese than it is with Malay.
- Even though most people in Indonesia are Muslim, each ethnic group practises Islam in their own unique way. For example, some ethnic groups follow a syncretic form of Islam (which means they combine Islam with indigenous traditions that pre-date Islam and may or may not contradict the teachings of Islam), whereas some other ethnic groups follow a purist form of Islam (which means they practise Islam more or less the same way it is practised in the Middle East). The Acehnese, for example, are the most purist of all Muslims in Indonesia, and the Bugis people follow a syncretic form of Islam, due to their belief in the system of five genders. Amongst the Javanese and Sundanese, there are a fair share of syncretist and purist Muslims. Fun fact, Muslims in Malaysia used to follow a syncretic form of Islam (in which they practised mandi safar) until the 1970s, when almost all of Muslims in Malaysia started embracing a more purist form of Islam.
- Malaysians should never refer to Acehnese, Minangkabau, Sundanese, Javanese, Balinese, Buginese (and all other regional languages of Indonesia, aside from Malay) as dialects of the Malay language. Because if Malaysians were spoken to in any of these languages, they would not understand anything at all (they might understand some bits of Minangkabau). Malaysians should never consider Minangkabau, Javanese, Buginese, etc, as dialects of Malay. Instead, they should consider them as languages that are distinct from Malay. Whilst languages such as Acehnese, Minangkabau, Sundanese, Javanese, Balinese, Buginese, etc, may be similar to Malay due to coming from the same Austronesian language family, these languages are, for the most part, mutually unintelligible with Malay.
- Not all ethnic groups in Indonesia (even if they share the same Islamic faith as the ethnic Malays) follow the same naming system as the ethnic Malays, in which a given name is followed by your father's name. Some ethnic groups, such as Javanese and Sundanese, have only given names, and there are ethnic groups in Indonesia, other than ethnic Chinese, that have given names alongside family names/clan names (such as the Batak).
- Most importantly, in East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku and Papua (to explain to Malaysians, these areas are east of Lombok and Sulawesi), most of the people don't even facially resemble the majority of Indonesian pribumi (in Malaysia they are called bumiputra) at all, since they have very dark skin and kinky hair, just like the Orang Asli of Peninsular Malaysia. Plus, the people of East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku and Papua are predominantly Christian, despite the fact that half of the people of Maluku are Muslim.
By the way, for any Indonesians who don't know, the Orang Asli are a group of people that live in the interior of Peninsular Malaysia and facially resemble the people of East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku and Papua. Most Orang Asli are animist, with small numbers of them practising either Islam or Christianity. Unlike the Malays, who speak an Austronesian language, the Orang Asli mostly speak Austro-Asiatic languages. If any Indonesians want to explain to Malaysians the fact the people of East Nusa Tenggara, Maluku and Papua have a very different facial and physical appearance from the rest of Indonesia, they definitely have to mention the Orang Asli (and maybe also the Australian aborigines), in order to make it easier for Malaysians to understand.
In order to explain to Malaysians how diverse Indonesia is (in terms of ethnicity, religion, culture and language), you also have to show my fellow Malaysians this map which shows the religions in Maritime Southeast Asia (Indonesia is included in that map).
http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Religion-Insular-Southeast-Asia-Map.png
You also have to show them this map which shows all the languages in Maritime Southeast Asia (both Malaysia and Indonesia are featured in that map).
http://www.muturzikin.com/cartesasiesudest/14.htm
Most importantly, if you want to explain to Malaysians that Malays, Javanese, Minangkabau, Bugis, etc, are completely distinct ethnic groups with their own mother tongues that are mutually unintelligible with each other's, you have to show them this map which features the various ethnic groups of Indonesia. That way, hopefully, my fellow Malaysians will understand that Javanese, Minangkabau, Bugis, Acehnese, etc, are NOT sub-groups of the ethnic Malays, in the same way that Cantonese, Hakka, Hoklos and Teochews, etc, are sub-groups of the Han Chinese people.
https://i.redd.it/jkgiss3itha21.png
submitted by ekmalsukarno to indonesia [link] [comments]


2020.04.02 16:04 thecriclover99 Ram Navami (Hindu Festival celebrating the birth of Lord Rama)

Ram Navami (Hindu Festival celebrating the birth of Lord Rama)

What is Ram Navami

  • Lord Rama was born on Navami Tithi during Shukla Paksha of Chaitra month. Each year this day is celebrated as the birthday of Lord Rama....
  • ...As per Hindu calendar, Ram Navami is celebrated on the ninth day (navmi) of Chaitra month (lunar calendar).
  • The dates of Ram Navami differ every year because of the fact that it is based on Hindu calendar and Hindu calendars are based on the Solar and Lunar cycles... - Link
  • The hour chosen for the observance of the Lord's birth is that when the Sun is overhead and is at its maximum brilliance. - Link

Why celebrate Ram Navami?

  • Lord Rama [or Lord Ram or Lord Ramachandra] is amongst the ten avatars of Lord Vishnu and also one of the two most popular avatars along with Lord Krishna. Rama Navami is widely celebrated across India. Lord Rama is considered to be the epitome of perfection for fulfilling all his duties towards both family and subjects. It is believed that meditating on the noble Lord Rama and chanting his name is believed to removes the pains of life and lead one to moksha or liberation... - Link

How to observe Ram Navami?

  • Fasting - Some choose to eat minimally (fast completely, otherwise partake only in water & fruits until the fast is broken)
  • Meditation, Japa and/or Reflection on the Glories of Lord Rama
  • Bhajans
    • See below for some nice translated bhajans from bhajan
    • See RamaBhajans for bhajans specifically related to Lord Rama
  • Chanting
    • 108 names of Lord Rama + meaning available here
    • A lot of temples & ashrams host chanting from Tulasidas' Ramcharitmanas. This can also be done at home. (copies available at the resources page of the Wiki at TheRamayana)
  • Visit your local Ashram or Temple, and they should be able to advise you in more detail about the above.

Top Lord Rama Bhajans from bhajan:

  1. https://www.reddit.com/bhajan/comments/bcqntg/mujhe_apni_sharan_mein_lelo_ram_sonu_nigam/
  2. https://www.reddit.com/bhajan/comments/bcqmfz/prem_mudit_man_se_kaho_hariharan/
  3. https://www.reddit.com/bhajan/comments/an0j7p/sri_ramachandra_kripalu_bhajamana_sri_lata/
  4. https://www.reddit.com/bhajan/comments/ajlq72/jaise_suraj_ki_garmi_sharma_bandhu/
  5. https://www.reddit.com/bhajan/comments/ajdpno/jag_mein_sundar_hai_do_naam_anup_jalota/

Artwork

We have some amazing artwork of Lord Rama available from HinduSketches and HinduArt here.
Epitome of Devotion by Bhrugen Bhaleeya

Lord Rama The Archer by Bijay Biswaal
Lord Hari by Madhavi Tuli
submitted by thecriclover99 to HinduArt [link] [comments]


2020.01.23 05:12 myssr “Hinduism, India and it’s Antiquity” Talks & Debate in Bangalore, on Feb 2, 2020

“Hinduism, India and it’s Antiquity”
This is one of its kind program on Indology happening on the 2nd of February, 2020 between 10.30 am to 6.00 pm
Inaugural speech: Prof K S Narayancharya
Presentations by:
  1. Shri Nilesh Oak: Scientifically Dating of the Mahabharata, Ramayana & Rigveda. The basis for Indic Renaissance.
  2. Shri Nithin Sridhar: Purushartha as Dharma.
  3. Smt Sai Swaroopa Iyer: Draupadi, the 'iccha-shakti' of Mahabharata and
  4. Shri Shiv Shastry: "Tearing Down the Aryan Invasion Myth"
Debate: "When did the Mahabharata war happen" between Shri Nilesh Oak and Shri Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Valedictory by Shri Chakravarthi Sulibele
Venue: NMKRV Mangala Mantapa, Jayanagar 3rd block, Bengaluru
Registration link:
https://forms.gle/zgxMrcf5Pta6YpKV8
submitted by myssr to Chodi [link] [comments]


2020.01.16 11:34 TheInsaneM "Why I killed Gandhi" part-I. Nathuram Godse's final statement.

This is a two part post, of which the part-I comprises of Nathuram Godse's final statement detailing why he decided to assassinate Gandhi. The part-II will attempt to analyze Godse's actions from a neutral perspective.
Nathuram Godse assassinated Gandhiji on 30 January 1948. The trial began on 27 May 1948 and concluded on 10 February 1949. He was sentenced to death.
An appeal to the Punjab High Court, then in session at Simla, did not find favour and the sentence was upheld. This statement is the last made by Godse before the Court.
WHY I KILLED GANDHI
Born in a devotional Brahmin family, I instinctively came to revere Hindu religion, Hindu history and Hindu culture. I had, therefore, been intensely proud of Hinduism as a whole. As I grew up I developed a tendency to free thinking unfettered by any superstitious allegiance to any isms, political or religious. That is why I worked actively for the eradication of untouchability and the caste system based on birth alone. I openly joined RSS wing of anti-caste movements and maintained that all Hindus were of equal status as to rights, social and religious and should be considered high or low on merit alone and not through the accident of birth in a particular caste or profession.
I used publicly to take part in organized anti-caste dinners in which thousands of Hindus, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, Chamars and Bhangis participated. We broke the caste rules and dined in the company of each other. I have read the speeches and writings of Ravana, Chanakiya, Dadabhai Naoroji, Vivekanand, Gokhale, Tilak, along with the books of ancient and modern history of India and some prominent countries like England , France , America and Russia . Moreover I studied the tenets of Socialism and Marxism. But above all I studied very closely whatever Veer Savarkar and Gandhiji had written and spoken, as to my mind these two ideologies have contributed more to the moulding of the thought and action of the Indian people during the last thirty years or so, than any other single factor has done.
All this reading and thinking led me to believe it was my first duty to serve Hindudom and Hindus both as a patriot and as a world citizen. To secure the freedom and to safeguard the just interests of some thirty crores (300 million) of Hindus would automatically constitute the freedom and the well-being of all India , one fifth of human race. This conviction led me naturally to devote myself to the Hindu Sanghtanist ideology and programme, which alone, I came to believe, could win and preserve the national independence of Hindustan , my Motherland, and enable her to render true service to humanity as well.
Since the year 1920, that is, after the demise of Lokamanya Tilak, Gandhiji’s influence in the Congress first increased and then became supreme. His activities for public awakening were phenomenal in their intensity and were reinforced by the slogan of truth and non-violence which he paraded ostentatiously before the country. No sensible or enlightened person could object to those slogans. In fact there is nothing new or original in them.. They are implicit in every constitutional public movement. But it is nothing but a mere dream if you imagine that the bulk of mankind is, or can ever become, capable of scrupulous adherence to these lofty principles in its normal life from day to day.
In fact, honour, duty and love of one’s own kith and kin and country might often compel us to disregard non-violence and to use force. I could never conceive that an armed resistance to an aggression is unjust. I would consider it a religious and moral duty to resist and, if possible, to overpower such an enemy by use of force. [In the Ramayana] Rama killed Ravana in a tumultuous fight and relieved Sita.. [In the Mahabharata], Krishna killed Kansa to end his wickedness; and Arjuna had to fight and slay quite a number of his friends and relations including the revered Bhishma because the latter was on the side of the aggressor. It is my firm belief that in dubbing Rama, Krishna and Arjuna as guilty of violence, the Mahatma betrayed a total ignorance of the springs of human action. In more recent history, it was the heroic fight put up by Chhatrapati Shivaji that first checked and eventually destroyed the Muslim tyranny in India . It was absolutely essentially for Shivaji to overpower and kill an aggressive Afzal Khan, failing which he would have lost his own life. In condemning history’s towering warriors like Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Gobind Singh as misguided patriots, Gandhiji has merely exposed his self-conceit. He was, paradoxical as it may appear, a violent pacifist who brought untold calamities on the country in the name of truth and non-violence, while Rana Pratap, Shivaji and the Guru will remain enshrined in the hearts of their countrymen for ever for the freedom they brought to them.
The accumulating provocation of thirty-two years, culminating in his last pro-Muslim fast, at last goaded me to the conclusion that the existence of Gandhi should be brought to an end immediately. Gandhi had done very good in South Africa to uphold the rights and well-being of the Indian community there. But when he finally returned to India he developed a subjective mentality under which he alone was to be the final judge of what was right or wrong. If the country wanted his leadership, it had to accept his infallibility; if it did not, he would stand aloof from the Congress and carry on his own way.
Against such an attitude there can be no halfway house. Either Congress had to surrender its will to his and had to be content with playing second fiddle to all his eccentricity, whimsicality, metaphysics and primitive vision, or it had to carry on without him. He alone was the Judge of everyone and every thing; he was the master brain guiding the civil disobedience movement; no other could know the technique of that movement. He alone knew when to begin and when to withdraw it. The movement might succeed or fail, it might bring untold disaster and political reverses but that could make no difference to the Mahatma’s infallibility. ‘A Satyagrahi can never fail’ was his formula for declaring his own infallibility and nobody except himself knew what a Satyagrahi is. Thus, the Mahatma became the judge and jury in his own cause. These childish insanities and obstinacies, coupled with a most severe austerity of life, ceaseless work and lofty character made Gandhi formidable and irresistible.
Many people thought that his politics were irrational but they had either to withdraw from the Congress or place their intelligence at his feet to do with as he liked. In a position of such absolute irresponsibility Gandhi was guilty of blunder after blunder, failure after failure, disaster after disaster. Gandhi’s pro-Muslim policy is blatantly in his perverse attitude on the question of the national language of India . It is quite obvious that Hindi has the most prior claim to be accepted as the premier language. In the beginning of his career in India , Gandhi gave a great impetus to Hindi but as he found that the Muslims did not like it, he became a champion of what is called Hindustani.. Everybody in India knows that there is no language called Hindustani; it has no grammar; it has no vocabulary. It is a mere dialect, it is spoken, but not written. It is a bastard tongue and cross-breed between Hindi and Urdu, and not even the Mahatma’s sophistry could make it popular. But in his desire to please the Muslims he insisted that Hindustani alone should be the national language of India . His blind followers, of course, supported him and the so-called hybrid language began to be used. The charm and purity of the Hindi language was to be prostituted to please the Muslims. All his experiments were at the expense of the Hindus.
From August 1946 onwards the private armies of the Muslim League began a massacre of the Hindus. The then Viceroy, Lord Wavell, though distressed at what was happening, would not use his powers under the Government of India Act of 1935 to prevent the rape, murder and arson. The Hindu blood began to flow from Bengal to Karachi with some retaliation by the Hindus. The Interim Government formed in September was sabotaged by its Muslim League members right from its inception, but the more they became disloyal and treasonable to the government of which they were a part, the greater was Gandhi’s infatuation for them. Lord Wavell had to resign as he could not bring about a settlement and he was succeeded by Lord Mountbatten. King Log was followed by King Stork. The Congress which had boasted of its nationalism and socialism secretly accepted Pakistan literally at the point of the bayonet and abjectly surrendered to Jinnah. India was vivisected and one-third of the Indian territory became foreign land to us from August 15, 1947.
Lord Mountbatten came to be described in Congress circles as the greatest Viceroy and Governor-General this country ever had. The official date for handing over power was fixed for June 30, 1948, but Mountbatten with his ruthless surgery gave us a gift of vivisected India ten months in advance. This is what Gandhi had achieved after thirty years of undisputed dictatorship and this is what Congress party calls ‘freedom’ and ‘peaceful transfer of power’. The Hindu-Muslim unity bubble was finally burst and a theocratic state was established with the consent of Nehru and his crowd and they have called ‘freedom won by them with sacrifice’ – whose sacrifice? When top leaders of Congress, with the consent of Gandhi, divided and tore the country – which we consider a deity of worship – my mind was filled with direful anger.
One of the conditions imposed by Gandhi for his breaking of the fast unto death related to the mosques in Delhi occupied by the Hindu refugees. But when Hindus in Pakistan were subjected to violent attacks he did not so much as utter a single word to protest and censure the Pakistan Government or the Muslims concerned. Gandhi was shrewd enough to know that while undertaking a fast unto death, had he imposed for its break some condition on the Muslims in Pakistan , there would have been found hardly any Muslims who could have shown some grief if the fast had ended in his death. It was for this reason that he purposely avoided imposing any condition on the Muslims. He was fully aware of from the experience that Jinnah was not at all perturbed or influenced by his fast and the Muslim League hardly attached any value to the inner voice of Gandhi.
Gandhi is being referred to as the Father of the Nation. But if that is so, he had failed his paternal duty inasmuch as he has acted very treacherously to the nation by his consenting to the partitioning of it. I stoutly maintain that Gandhi has failed in his duty. He has proved to be the Father of Pakistan. His inner-voice, his spiritual power and his doctrine of non-violence of which so much is made of, all crumbled before Jinnah’s iron will and proved to be powerless. Briefly speaking, I thought to myself and foresaw I shall be totally ruined, and the only thing I could expect from the people would be nothing but hatred and that I shall have lost all my honour, even more valuable than my life, if I were to kill Gandhiji. But at the same time I felt that the Indian politics in the absence of Gandhiji would surely be proved practical, able to retaliate, and would be powerful with armed forces. No doubt, my own future would be totally ruined, but the nation would be saved from the inroads of Pakistan . People may even call me and dub me as devoid of any sense or foolish, but the nation would be free to follow the course founded on the reason which I consider to be necessary for sound nation-building.
After having fully considered the question, I took the final decision in the matter, but I did not speak about it to anyone whatsoever. I took courage in both my hands and I did fire the shots at Gandhiji on 30th January 1948, on the prayer-grounds of Birla House. I do say that my shots were fired at the person whose policy and action had brought rack and ruin and destruction to millions of Hindus. There was no legal machinery by which such an offender could be brought to book and for this reason I fired those fatal shots. I bear no ill will towards anyone individually but I do say that I had no respect for the present government owing to their policy which was unfairly favourable towards the Muslims. But at the same time I could clearly see that the policy was entirely due to the presence of Gandhi.
I have to say with great regret that Prime Minister Nehru quite forgets that his preachings and deeds are at times at variances with each other when he talks about India as a secular state in season and out of season, because it is significant to note that Nehru has played a leading role in the establishment of the theocratic state of Pakistan, and his job was made easier by Gandhi’s persistent policy of appeasement towards the Muslims. I now stand before the court to accept the full share of my responsibility for what I have done and the judge would, of course, pass against me such orders of sentence as may be considered proper. But I would like to add that I do not desire any mercy to be shown to me, nor do I wish that anyone else should beg for mercy on my behalf. My confidence about the moral side of my action has not been shaken even by the criticism levelled against it on all sides. I have no doubt that honest writers of history will weigh my act and find the true value thereof some day in future.
submitted by TheInsaneM to HindutvaRises [link] [comments]


2019.10.28 08:31 Sikander-i-Sani TIL that one of the earliest references to Ramayana are found in Tamil Sangam literature

So this is not exactly a TIL. A few days ago, a guy in Voldemort was asking about historicity of Ramayana. I decided to follow one of the comments which mentioned that the Ramayana is referenced in the Sangam literature.
Apparently one of the earliest mentions to Ramayana & it's contents are made in Tamil Sangam literature namely the Purananuru poem 378 (300BCE) where the poet refers to the gifts received by the king as Sita's jewels which Sugreev & his monkeys got when she threw them down while struggling with Ravana.
Then there is another one, namely, Akananuru poem 70 (b/w 400 & 200BCE) which mentions a triumphant Rama sitting under a banyan tree at Dhanuskodi (Rameswaram).
Now, here is where it gets interesting. The ""scientific wisdom"" has been that
a) The story of Ramayana was written about 500BCE (give or take a century or two)
b) The story gradually spread from the modern day cow belt to rest of India (Tamil Ramayana in 11th century, telugu in 13th & so forth)
But if the Tamil poets of the Sangam period are so casually referring to Rama then it means that the story of Rama was already known to the Tamils by this point & was common enough that everybody would understand it ala how almost all of us could get a Sholay or Mother India reference. This not only pushes back the traditionally accepted date, it also punctures a hole into the narrative that Rama is an Aryan import to the Dravidian south & all other nonsensical theories.
Here are the links to the full text of both the poems
Purananuru this contains a translation of 200 poems from that text
Akananuru
submitted by Sikander-i-Sani to IndiaSpeaks [link] [comments]


2019.10.23 04:06 Sikander-i-Sani [Discussion] How to tell people Ramayana & Mahabharata were invented in last 1000 years

So guys recently I came across some bigoted Hindu friends of mine who were claiming that these epics are 1000s of year old. They were throwing around names like Panini & Sangam literature & dates like 400BCE. Intrigued, I looked into it & found that Sanghis are spreading the evil propaganda that these books are 1000s of year old. This is a plain lie. We all know India didn't have any culture until Mehmud Gheznavi arrived & civilised these people.
These epics were created in the last millennium after Hindus came into contact with Xtianity & Islam. The secular Sultan Ala-ud-Din Khilji wrote Ramayana himself so that Hindus don't feel bad about not having a book as good as Quran. For the Mahabharata some say Aurangzeb wrote it (he only invented Sanskrit), but evidence points out that it was written by Britishers in 19th century to provide Hindus with 2 books so they would feel better than Muslims.
In fact, eminent historiansTM like Romilla Thapar & Audrey Truschke have proven this. So guys please tell how we could counter this evil Sanghi propaganda?
P.S. Only like minded secular non-binary peoplekind should respond. I request the mods to perma-ban all Sanghi bigots from this discussion.
submitted by Sikander-i-Sani to bakchodi [link] [comments]


2019.10.18 01:41 SirCrimz FGO Servant Historic Timeline

Hi everyone!
I'm not sure if this has ever been done before but I created a spreadsheet that displays an estimated chronological order of when servants appeared in historical/mythological/fictional settings.
I mainly used this for personal use but I figured maybe other people might find it interesting to see where servants appeared compared to other servants.
I created TWO versions of the timeline to be friendly for JP and NA users that can be found in separate tabs in case anyone was concerned about spoilers.
Without further ado, I present the spreadsheet: FGO Servant Timeline
Now you may think "Isn't the Epic of Gilgamesh the oldest text?". Well, yes it is; however, the events of the Ramayana pre-dates the timeframe in which the Epic of Gilgamesh supposedly occurs. This is the kind of timeline you'll find in the spreadsheet.
Note:
The spreadsheet placements are still just educated guesses by myself (I'm not an expert) so I'm sure there are some discrepancies. If you happen to have any corrections, feel free to post below or send me a message over reddit and I'll consider making changes.
submitted by SirCrimz to grandorder [link] [comments]


2019.10.16 08:42 MarleyEngvall पाण्डव has been created

By James Churchward THE CHILDREN OF MU CHAPTER XI (continued) INDIA The Maha Bharata is one of the great Hindu epics. Apparently it was written about 1000 B. C. Its author is unknown. I have been unable to find any temple histories from which this may have been taken. In all probability the basis of it was legendary. It recounts the great war the Bharatas fought during the 13th and 14th Centuries B. C. between Kurus, whose ancient kingdom was situated along the Upper Ganges, and Panchatas of a neighboring tribe. Kaurarus and Pandavas fought for the capital city of Hastinapur. The following is another headline which I have found condensing the details of the Bharata war: "The Kavarus, the 100 sons of Dhritarashtra, led by Dur- godhana, made war against the Pandavas, the 5 sons of Pandu, the brother of Dhritarashtra, who was led by Yudhisthira." The Maha Bharata having been written 1000 B. C. and the Bharata war having occurred 1400-1500 B. C. shows the book to have been written 500 years after the event, therefore upon legendary records. The Maha Bharata like the Ramayana has not remained in its original form. Alterations have been made and many additions to the original writings. It would seem that, although the great theme of the Maha Bharata was the Bharata war, it includes other events as well. Omen's translation, page 118, says: "Now Maya was the chief architect of the Danavas." Maya, the great architect and scientist, was a Prince of the Nagas, subsequently call Danavas, of the First Colonial Indian Empire dating back over 20,000 years. Page 133: "Arjuna carried war against a tribe of the Danavas, the Nivata-Kavachas, who were very powerful numbering 30,000,000 people whose principal city was Hiranypura." As these date back to very ancient times they are in all probability two of the additions made to the original. The Nivata-Kavachas being Danavas, were Nagas; and being Nagas they were Mayas. Hiranypura is a word composed of Naga-Maya vocables and means "the home of those who dwell on the ocean," navigators and sailors. One of the western seaports of this city are still to be seen on the Caroline Islands. This city was lost some 12,000 to 13,000 years ago with the destruction of the Motherland. I have added this note to carry recorded Indian history back over 10,000 years beyond the date of the Hindu authorities. As a matter of fact, written records in a northern monastery carry the civ- ilization of India back more than 50,000 years. This corresponds with what is found written in Yucatan. Like Egypt, "there was never a time of savagery in India from which civilization might have been developed." India was the pearl on the brow of the Motherland. This does not entirely agree with many Hindu historians, so I must disagree with them on the grounds that I have studied the subject before writing about it. The Dzyan is a Hindu book written in Sanskrit about 1500 B. C. The book is accredited to the Brahmins and it certainly looks like their work. In this book the Naacal copies of the Sacred Inspired Writings of the Motherland have been taken as a base to work on. The Dzyan is the most incomplete and the most ambitious ancient work I have ever come across. It takes the Sacred Writings and with evident deliberateness misinterprets and adds to them. Misstatement permeates the whole text. The book reads as if it had been designed to breed distrust, fear and superstition in the people. There is very little symbolism in it. It is, rather, filled up with comparisons, unphilosophical and absolutely one-sided. No point is proven. Most sentences read like the headline of a chapter, leaving the chapter unwritten. There is no continuity of subjects, which leaves the whole thing indefinite. If the writer was only committing stray thoughts to writing, he admirably succeeded, but to follow the workings of his mind by his writings is absolutely impossible. If it was a work written with a view to breeding schisms and sects, without doubt it is admirable. Let us be generous. Did the writer know himself what he meant? What was he driving at? I doubt it. To me it looks like the writings of a disordered brain, wandering about in a fog. There is a fantastic tendency throughout with mythical thoughts ruling the mind and a leaning towards the Cosmic Sciences which he did not understand in the least, as is shown by the following: Sloka 9: "Light is a cold flame, a flame is fire, fire produces heat, and heat produces life." In the Sacred Writings it is particularly shown that light is an earthly force, not an element. Flames are superheated elements passing off in the form of gases after an analysis of the material by the earth's heat force. Life is produced by the combination of two forces working on an elementary body. Another paragraph: "Heat produces water." Heat is a force, water is composed of two elements, forces do not make or produce elements. Pages of such nonsense can be taken from the Dzyan equaling in absurdity the foregoing Sloka. THE SACRED INSPIRED BOOKS: THE BOOKS OF THE GOLDEN AGE.——"The Books of the Golden Age" is an Oriental name given to "The Sacred Inspired Writings of Mu, the Motherland. Among all ancient people and people of great antiquity they were also called The Sacred Mysteries. The reading of these books was known only to masters, high priests, and some selected priests. Neither the lower members of the priesthood nor the people could read them. Many chapters in these books or writings have been horribly mutilated by unscrupulous priests for purposes of their own, so that misconceptions and inventions have been handed down for thousands of years. Sir Edwin Arnold in the opening chapter of his charming epic, The Light of Asia, hit the nail squarely on the head where he says: "The extravagances which disfigure (religions) are to be referred to that inevitable degradation which priesthoods always inflict upon great ideas committed to their charge." "Religions invariably become discordant in frequent par- ticulars and sorely overlaid by corruptions, inventions and misconceptions." Had Sir Edwin been capable of deciphering, translating, and reading The Books of the Golden Age which he refers to as "The Books" he would without question have expressed his feelings in still stronger language. The Hindu priesthood were not alone and some were even worse, we have only to look at the records of the Egyptians, Phoenicians and Aztecs to see this confirmed. In many cases it is very apparent that the Hindu priesthood's object was to breed mystification, superstition and awe in the hearts of the people and to so bring them, body and soul, under priestly control. The priesthood would give a part only of what was written on a tablet, declaring it to be the Sacred Inspired Writings. I have made an accusation against the priesthood. It is, therefore, only right that I should prove my assertion. To do this I will give a few examples of what is actually written in the Sacred Writings and what the priesthood, subsequent to the driving out of the Naacals, have given out to the people. My first example will be an extract from the Section on Creation: "Let us make man after our own fashion and let us endow him with powers to rule the earth." "Created man and placed within his body a living imperishable part or spirit, and man became like the Creator in intellectual powers." Thus showing that man is a special creation. I must now take another extract from the Sacred Writings, also coming out of the Section on Creation. MAN'S LENGTH OF LIFE.——Extravagant lengths of lives have been doled out by the priesthood for the purpose of accomplishing their own ends; which was, receiving payment from those who wished to prolong their lives beyond the ordinary period assigned to man. It worked well, fortunes rolled into the priesthood's coffers, and if the man did not live as long as paid for, it was his own fault because he did not follow implicitly the priestly instruc- tions. "Man may live a thousand years." This extravagance was handed out to the people thousands of years ago and has been religiously brought down to present time. The people have been taught that it was their material body that could be made to thus survive if they would follow the instructions of the priesthood and pay a little for it——just a little, only all the worldly wealth they possessed. The complete translation of this tablet reads: "Man may live a thousand years. It is The Man, the Divine Spark which thus survives but not his material body; that returns to mother earth." When Moses translated this sentence he put the right construction on it. He translated it as: "The span of man's life is three score and ten years," etc., etc. When Valmiki, the Hindu Herodotus, wrote his won- derful epic the Ramayana, he made omissions from the original which entirely changed the meaning. I refer to the passage where he says: "And Rama reigned 10,000 years." Valmiki left out the preceding words "the descendants of." The old Rishi and I deciphered either the original tablet or an old, old copy of it. This tablet says: "And the descendant of Ram Chandra sat upon his throne for 10,000 years." In other words, it was the Rama Dynasty that lasted 10,000 years and not the reign of the first Rama. "By His will the Almighty created all things." Upon this passage they advanced and taught the theory that Every- thing was a part of the Creator Himself, which natur- ally means there is no God when everything is God. This being the case the worship of a piece of wood or stone is God. And the cannibalistic savage when worshiping his fetish is all right because his fetish is our God! Can a more horrible conception be conceived? The Sacred Inspired Writings distinctly state and fre- quently reiterate that Man only has been made a part of the Creator; then, not the material body but the soul or the Divine Spark that exists within the material body. All creations, other than man, are mere works or products of the will of the Creator. A picture is the product of the artist, but not a part of the artist himself. A box is the product of a carpenter, but not a part of the carpenter himself. A seed sown in the ground by the gardener, germinates, shoots up and bears flowers and fruit. The flowers and fruit are not a part of the gardener, they are the product of his work. A tree sends forth leaves and flowers, these leaves and flowers are a part of the tree. So here on earth, all and everything except man are products of the Creator's work and not parts of the Creator himself. Man only is the leaf upon the tree. AN INVENTION.——One of the rankest of the early Brahminitical teachings was: "Man started from nothing, then became a grass, then followed to a fish, from a fish he became an amphibian, from the amphibian he advanced to the reptile, from a reptile he became a mammal and from a mammal man was produced." The passage from the Sacred Inspired Writings from which this invention was worked out reads: "From Mother Earth the material body comes and to Mother Earth it returns." In these teachings they do not show how man became possessed of a soul——they could not. A careful comparison of the old Brahminitical books and writings with the Sacred Inspired Writings clearly shows why there are so many sects and divergent religious opinions in India. Most of them widely different from the religion brought to them by the Naacals. It generally arose from their taking sentences out of paragraphs. Tens of thousands of years have passed since the original Sacred Writings were etched on clay tablets. Each time they have been translated since leaving the hands of the Naacals, greater and more numerous inventions, extravagances, additions, omissions and misconceptions have been en- grafted into the translations by the cunning, unscrupulous priesthoods. Another example of priestly infamy is shown in the early Buddhist priesthood of Northern India. THE EARLY BUDDHIST PRIESTHOOD OF NORTHERN INDIA.——With a view to enslaving the people, body and soul, to the aggrandizement of the priesthood, further to gain absolute control over the minds and worldly possessions, the priesthood invented obtuse doctrines and used them in place of the simple, pure and plain teachings of Gautama Buddha. They turned the Buddhist religion in Northern India into a metaphysical, mystical, mythical doctrine which not one in a thousand could understand. The priesthood invented a succession of earthly Bud- dhas with a series of counterparts called Dhyani Bud- dhas with spiritual emanations called Dhyani Bodhisatt- vas. Later to complete their program by adding fear and dread to awe and superstition, they introduced into the Buddhist religion the degrading worship of Siva, the mythical man-devil in connection with a mythical hell. Egypt had taught India a great lesson with its man-devil Set and his mythical hell. The Hindus were not slow in any way to see the great advantage a devil and a hell would be to them. THE ORIGIN OF VIRGIN BIRTH.——The origin of an immaculate conception and virgin birth is to be found in the Sacred Inspired Writings. It originates from the 5th Command of Creation, "From these cosmic eggs life came forth as commanded." In a subsequent chapter explaining Creation, cosmic eggs are referred to as "the Virgins of Life." The sentence reads: "Hol Hu Kal." Hol: closed. Hu: virgin womb. Kal: to open. Freed reading: to pierce or open the virgin womb; and by extension: to pierce or open the virgin womb of Life. For this reason the ancients called the waters "The Mother of Life," for up to this period of the earth's development the womb of Life had been closed. The advent of Life had opened the virgin womb in the waters. Later, when the Four Great Primary Forces were given the names of Gods by the ancients in their theogony, they made them of immaculate birth to correspond with the teachings of the Sacred Writings; namely, that first life, either of the gods or nature, came from the result of Hol Hu Kal. Upon this ancient conception modern priesthood have invented immaculate conceptions and virgin births for various men who have lived. Our learned scholars tell us that the ancient kings claimed virgin birth because they called themselves "Son of the Sun." These kings claimed nothing of the kind, they were emperors of colonial empires under the suzerainty of Mu, the Empire of the Sun, and "Son of the Sun" was a title bestowed on these kings by Mu, thus showing their allegiance to her. "Son of the Sun" meant son or child of the Empire of the Sun. THE FIRST RELIGION.——The Sacred Inspired Books were written for the purpose of teaching early man religion; therefore, man's first religion was the teaching of the Sacred Books. The basis of this religion was Love. Man's Love for the Heavenly Father and His works. The Divine Love of the Heavenly Father for His son Man. Every teaching was plain and simple without a particle of theology. The most ignorant could understand every phrase in it. There was nothing of any kind indefinite. It was impossible not to understand it thoroughly. Man was taught to approach the heavenly Father, not with fear or dread, but with confidence, and above all, Love: as a child would run to its earthly father who is standing with outstretched arms to receive it. Love stood at the head of the 12 great virtues, because Love governs the Universe and the Heavenly Father is The Great Love. After studying the teachings of these writings, if I were asked, "Where is God's greatest temple on earth?" I should answer: "In the heart of man; the perfect temple for the adoration of God; the perfect temple for silent meditation and Love; the temple available at all times and in all places, any hour of the day or night, whether it be in crowded city or desert plain, for the Love and Adoration of the Heavenly and the temple where man can become at one with the Heavenly Father." Tell me, what other temple can fill its place? THE TWO GREAT SYMBOLS.——There were many symbols for the various attributes of the Deity, but only two for the full Godhead. The perfect understanding of these two great symbols is an important factor in tracing the various lines of colonization from the Motherland. The Sun and the adorned Serpent were the two symbols. The Sin was the most sacred because it was the collective or monotheistic symbol. The adorned Serpent was the symbol of the Deity as the Creator only. As the mono- theistic symbol of the Deity, the Sun was called Ra and sometimes written La. When the Sun was spoken of and referred to as the celestial orb it was given its name according to the language of the country. Originally the Sun was pictured as a plain circle. Later the circle was used for other symbolizations such as The Universe, Infinity, etc.; then, to specialize it as the monotheistic symbol, additions were made to it. The Nagas added a dot in the center and the Uighurs, their northern neighbors, a smaller circle instead of a dot. The adorned Serpent as before stated was the symbol of the Deity as the Creator. The Nagas selected the cobra de capella and gave it 7 heads to correspond with the 7 Commands in Creation. This symbol was apparently used from the southern half of the western shores of the Motherland, inland how far there is no telling. To the north of the Naga region, a conventional form of the Quetzacoatl was used which they called Khan or King. This form is known as the Dragon. On the eastern central, and to the north, the venomous feather-covered serpent, Quetzacoatl, was the symbol. Among the people who settled in western North America we find many variations in the conven- tional forms of Quetzacoatl. Following the two Suns mentioned and the forms of Serpents, goes a long way in telling us who any particular ancient people were originally. It is a foundation to work on and distinctly shows us where they commingled. THE ARYAN INVASION OF INDIA.——All historians speak of "The Aryan Invasion of India." This has been misleading to the public, for the public generally has been left with the idea that the Aryans sent an army of soldiers into India and conquered the country. This was not so. The same misconceptions have been taught about the Incas of Peru who superseded the Aymaras. Instead of the word invasion being used, the more appropriate word would have been infiltration which would have given a correct explanation. The first Aryans in India were a small company who left the bleak mountain valleys of the Hindu Koosh and came down into India. They settled among the Nagas in the valley of the Saraswatti River in the Punjab. They were received kindly by the Nagas and made welcome, so they sent back word to the mountains for their relatives and friends to come. They came, not a laggard among them; and they kept coming for hundreds of years, by families, by scores, and by hundreds; and as they came, the newcomers settled to the east of the previous ones until they had completely overrun the land and settled themselves through- out the whole of the northern parts of India. Hindu historians disagree as to the date when the Aryans first came to India. E. G. Tillac says: "The Aryan invasion of India took place 6000 B. C. to 4000 B. C.," a slight difference of 2000 years. V. A. Smith entirely disagrees with Tillac and says: "The Aryans first com- menced to come to India 1500 B. C." For certain rea- sons hereafter given, I believe that Smith is much nearer right than Tillac. These Aryans subsequently became known as the Hindu Aryans. The Medes and the Persians commenced to leave their mountain homes in the neighborhood of about 1800 B. C. to 1600 B. C. and completed their exodus about 1500 B. C. The Hindu Aryans were the descendants of a company of Uighurs who were marooned in the mountains of Afghanistan near the Hindu Koosh when the mountains were raised. The Medes and Persians were a continuation of these in the north. For thousands of years they had existed in these bleak, inhospitable parts. During this time they had so multiplied that these mountain valleys could not sustain the ever- increasing population. Then they followed down the mountains until they came to the fertile plains and valleys of India. Being well received by the inhabitants, they stayed and sent for the rest to come along. Owing to their hand-to-mouth existence in the mountains, they were exceedingly hardy but low in education. In their bitter struggles to sustain life, all learning and sciences were neglected. Apparently they retained the art of reading and writing only, so that on their arrival in India, they were only rough, uncouth, hardy mountaineers. As the migration of the Aryans streamed down into the plains of India through Afghanistan and Kashmir, con- tinuing for hundreds of years, they gradually obtained pos- session of the land along the whole of Northern India. Thus they crowded out the aborigines, the Nagas. This meant a displacement of population because there was no war or slaughter. The aborigines had to clear out. What became of them? Where did they go? A great many intermarried with the Aryans so that there was a mixture and pronounced type which is very prominent in India today. This mixture is now classed among the Aryans. What became of those who did not marry and were crowded out? I can find neither record nor legend that is acceptable. I will give what appears to be a reasonable deduction. It must, however, be thoroughly understood that these are deductions, not assertions. They may or may not be correct. The ancient Maharatta Kingdom first extended from the northern boundary of India to an unrecorded point south. The next time the Maharattas appear on the stage of India's history is when they are located in what is now called Central India, having been crowded out this far south by the encroaching Aryans. At this time the Maharatta Kingdom had as its capital city Gwalior. Rajputana the Kingdom extended down to Goa. There is a Sanskrit writing saying that the Maharattas were driven thus far south by the Aryans. I think the word "driven" is an error, and the words "crowded out" would better convey the actual meaning. I think as the Aryans crowded in from the Hindu Koosh, the Maharattas gradually went farther south. The Maharattas again come into prominence A. D. 1650 to A. D. 1680 when they broke the power of the Mongul conquerors of India. From the time of Savaji, the Mohammedan power declined. The Maharattas were in India when the Aryans first began to arrive. Their traditions say they were among the first comers to India. The Maharattas are not of the Aryan stock but belong to the Nagas, so that in the Maharattas we find the descendants of the first people who occupied Northern India. Intermarriages may have changed much of their blood but the stock is Naga. No date can be given of the first Maharatta Kingdom. It was, however, back beyond 10,000 years ago. Legends seem to indicate that the first Maharatta Kingdom was contemporary with the adjoining Ra Ma Empire which apparently succeeded the Naga Empire. Another small Hindu colony found in the Madras Presidency at Ootakamund in the Nilgiri Hills has all the earmarks of the ancient Nagas. They are known as Tudas. Their number is small, less than 2000, and they are steadily disappearing. They are a white, handsome race, tall and athletic, with Roman noses, beautiful teeth, large full expressive eyes. They never wear any head covering but let their hair grow six to seven inches long so that it forms a thick, bushy mass of curls around the head. They are honest, brave, inoffensive and live as herdsmen. They have a temple which is dedicated to Truth. They look upon the Brahmins with scorn and contempt; probably on account of the past. In the Kashmir Valley there is a secluded people known as Nayas who still worship the Deity through the symbol Naga, the seven-headed Serpent. Are these Nayas of Kashmir a still surviving, pure-blooded remnant of the ancient Nagas? I have never had the opportunity of getting their history or legends. These people may be the descendants of a small company who left India under the persecution of the Aryans and took refuge in the Kashmir Mountains. It would be interesting to know their origin. As previously stated, the Brahmins, after gaining what knowledge they were capable of absorbing from the Naacals, persecuted them. Robertson says "to extinction." This is only partially true. It is true that they drove them out of all temples, colleges and educational institutions but not to absolute extinction, for many went north into the Himalaya Mountains and to the mountains beyond in Central Asia, and thees form ed colleges of their own out beyond the world, so to speak. The descendants of a few, very few, are still in existence. Among these very few there are those who have managed to maintain and retain some of the sciences and learning of the Earth's First Civ- ilization. Those retained have been principally about the science of man's great Divine Force; and other sciences have either been neglected or forgotten. PATALA.——Pundit Dayanand Saraswatti and Swami Vive Kananda in their writings assert that the Nagas came to India from Pátâla and that Pátâla means antipodes, directly opposite, on the other side of the earth. I must take exception to this definition of the word Pátâla by these learned Hindus. Without doubt the Nagas came from Pátâla, but Pátâla does not mean antipodes. The word Pátâla, it composed of three Naga vocables. Two are of the Motherland's vocabulary and the third is a Naga modification of the Motherland's. Pa or Paa——cover over, extend over——by extension—— shine over. ta——ground, place, where. La——the Sun. Both the Nagas and the Mayas occasion- ally called the Sun La instead of Ra. Pátâla, therefore, means "The Land of the Sun" which was one of the names given to Mu, the Motherland. When the capital city of Babylonia was built by the Akkadians and Sumerians, they called it La Ka which means The City of the Sun and, by extension, The City of the Lord. When Alexander the Great was compelled to turn back from the intended conquest of India, he built a port for reëntry at the head of the Indus Delta and called it Pátâla. This city still remains but modernized in both structure and name. It is now called Tatta. CHAPTER XII SOUTHERN INDIA The original people in Southern India were a black race called Tamils. Ethnologists have also called them Dra- vidians from Dravida the name which they gave to the southern part of the Hindu Peninsula. Their original home was in the southwest of the Motherland. They came to India by way of the Malay Islands——not through Burma as did the Nagas. They must have come slowly through the Malay Islands because much of their language is composed of Malayalam words. I have been unable to find any records that even hint at the time when they came to India, whether before or after the Nagas, so this question remains unanswered. The Tamil language is a very composite language, being composed of Tamil, Telague, Canarasse and Malayalam. The Tamil language is one of the Oriental languages that fifty years ago I could read, write and speak as fluently as English. I cannot find any historian seriously attempting to show from whence the Tamils came to India. This point is generally glossed over by saying: "It is supposed the Dravidians (Tamils) came to Southern India from some where in Central Asia." On what they can base such a sup- position cannot be fathomed. There is not a native black race anywhere in Asia, nor has ever a trace of a black race bee found there as far as I can learn. So we must fall back for the reason, as a decision made at a scientific tea party. In this case the Bering Land Bridge was not available so they borrowed the European subterfuge by saying, "something i the central part of Asia." A. V. Smith in his "History of India," says: "Someday, perhaps, the history of the Dravidian civilization may be written by a competent scholar, skilled in all the lore and language required for the subject. Early Indian history as a whole cannot be viewed in true perspective until the non- Aryan institutions of the South receive adequate treat- ment." Smith is absolutely correct. A history of India without including the Tamils is like a building without a window. I have gone through many of the Southern temples in search of legends and tablets, but never found anything about the very ancient. One record I came across said, "A company of Tamils took ships and sailed in the direction of the setting sun. They came to a great land where they settled." There is no date given, nor are any details given of any communication with them after they settled. Nothing is said about their prosperity or even whether they survived, only the bare fact that a company sailed and arrived safely at the other end. The "great land" was presumably Africa. 
from The Children of Mu, by James Churchward. Copyright 1931 by James Churchward. Paperback Library Edition, First Printing: February 1968. Paperback Library Inc., New York, N.Y.; pp. 164—178.
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I. The Origin of Man II. The Eastern Lines III. Ancient North America IV. Stone Tablets from the Valley of Mexico (i.) (ii.) V. South America (i.) (ii.) VI. Atlantis VII. Western Europe VIII. The Greeks IX. Egypt X. The Western Lines XI. India (i.) (ii.) XII. Southern India XIII. The Great Uighur Empire XIV. Babylonia XV. Miscellaneous XVI. Intimate Hours with the Rishi
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By James Churchward THE CHILDREN OF MU CHAPTER XI INDIA India, the land of mystery and mysterious sciences, the cradle of the philosophy of the old Greek sages. Bharata (the ancient name of the Deccan), glorious, magnificent Bharata carried on and maintained the civilization and learning of the Motherland for nearly eight thousand years after the great volcanic forces and torn her body asunder and the ocean waters had swallowed up the fragments. It was India who stood foremost for thousands of years, holding together and carrying on the earth's first great civilization after the destruction of the Motherland. Other nations held the civilization for a time but all except India soon began to fall back and many disappeared. It was India that stood foremost in religion, philosophy, as- tronomy, sciences, music, art and medicine and the time of the destruction of the Motherland down to about 500 B. C. No other nation could stand as her rival or compete with her in all branches of knowledge. The world generally knows nothing of this. Historians have utterly failed to show and to credit India with a civilization of ancient date, yet the Akkadians, Sumerian, Babylonians and Upper Egyptians were her offspring. It is not necessary to quote ancient writings or bring forward traditions. We have only to examine the western shores of India to prove the extreme age of her civilization; for here, lying on the bed of the Indian Ocean a few miles from the present shore line, are to be seen beneath the waters remains of great imposing structures. History does nt relate this submergence, yet here it is, and incontrovert- ible fact that in bygone times India enjoyed a high civ- ilization. The physical proofs are there. How does this compare with the nonsensical histories of India, that say India's civilization only dates back 4000 or 5000 years? SUBMERGED LANDS, WEST COAST OF INDIA.—— In the Indian Ocean, adjoining the West Coast of India, there exists a large area of submerged lands with structures showing thereon. Like the remains of the South Sea Islands, these structures are prehistoric. These submerged lands commence at about 21 degrees north latitude, or just below the mouth of the river Indus, and extended south to about the equator. These submerged lands are apparently of an elongated oval shape. The Lacadive and Maldive groups of low-lying islands are within the boundaries of this ova. Although I have several times passed quite close to them, I have never been on any of them, so cannot say whether they are parts of the subsequent work of coral insects. There is a long stretch of very shallow water both north and south of these islands with various channels of deeper water crossing them, through which ships have to pass going to or from India. This geological phenomenon has never been noted by any geologist or archaeologist as far as I can ascertain or by any historian. On days when conditions are favorable——that is, water and sky——impos- ing remains of ancient structures are clearly to be seen on the shallow water within the oval mentioned. These submerged lands are well known to the fishermen along the coast; as a matter of fact, it was through them that I became aware of this submersion. Hindu scientists also know of them; no one, however, can account for structures being at the bottom of the ocean as the submergence is not spoken of in Hindu history no matter how far one goes back. This is not at all to be wondered at as Hindu history does not go further back than 3000 B. C. In India, at various spots, there are hundred and maybe thousands of old tablets dating from some 15,000 to 325,000 years ago. The possibility is that if these old tablets were brought out and deciphered, an account of this submersion might be forthcoming. The loss of the Mother Tongue and the Motherland's form of writing was the result of the Aryan domination. From the time the Aryans controlled the civilization of India, it has gradually gone down to where it was found two hundred years ago. It fell from the highest to almost the lowest rung in the ladder; and, strange as it may appear, historians have placed the commencement of the Hindu civilization at the point where the actual decline commenced about 4000 years ago. What a travesty on facts and truth! These submerged lands with their great structures are positive proof of India's high civilization tens of thousands of years before the rough, coarse Aryan hillmen of the Hindu Koosh trod the soil of the Saraswatti Valley in India. Against the modern histories of India, the ancient temple records carry the civilization of India, India the Mother of Babylonia and Upper Egypt, back beyond 35,000 years. I have never come across any references to this submersion either in India or elsewhere, so the probability remains that it took place during those five to seven thousand years when apparently no history was being written in any part of the world. yet this submergence is a fact because the submerged structures can be see. To my mind, there is not the slightest doubt what caused this submergence and that the present land of Ceylon was raised through it. ANCIENT INDIA.——India was not always called India. As a matter of fact, India is a modern name for the peninsula; it has only been called India for about 2300 to 2400 years. What the ancient name of the Hindu peninsula was, or whether there was a name embodying the whole of the peninsula, I do not know. In all the ancient records which I have read, the Naga Empire, the Maharalta Kingdom and Dravida are only mentioned. The name India came out of the Greek. When the Greeks under Alexander the Great invaded India 325 B. C., they found in the northwest parts a large river which the natives called Sindhu. The Greeks transformed the name, first to India, afterwards to Hindu. Finally the river became known as the Indus and the people as Hindus and Indians. This section of India is called Sind today. Ramayana, from Hippolyte Fauche's translation: "The first people in India were Mayas who had left the Motherland; they first went to Burma and there became known as the Nagas. From Burma they established themselves in the Deccan, India, and in India subsequently became known as the Danavas. Naacal writing in a Tibetan monastery state that the Mayas settled in India over 70,000 years ago and were of a swarthy complexion with dark piercing eyes. "The Mayas were mighty navigators whose ships passed from the eastern to the western oceans and from the southern to the northern seas in ages so remote that the sun had not yet risen above the horizon. "Had not risen above the horizon is a symbolical sentence. It does not refer to the celestial orb but to the turning of the Hindu Maya colony into a colonial empire. With the crown it had an escutcheon bestowed on it——a rising sun with rays coming up on the horizon, showing the Empire to be under the suzerainty of the Motherland——The Empire of the Sun. "That being learned architects, they built great cities and palaces." This shows the exceedingly high civilization of the Hindus at this very remote date. "The Mayas likewise being great warriors, the con- quered the southern parts of the Hindustani Peninsula." This victory was over the Tamils who called their country Dravida. This war took place ten of thousands of years before the Aryans entered India. When, thousands of years afterwards, India was split up into a number of little kingdoms, the Tamils again gained their independence and formed monarchies. "The Maya adepts, the Naacals or Holy Brothers, started from the land of their birth in the east as missionaries of the religion and learning of the Mother- land. They first went to Burma where they taught the Nagas. From Burma they established themselves in the Dec- can, India, from whence they carried their religion and learning to the colonies of Babylonia and Egypt." I never think of the Ramayana without feeling that I am about to shake hands with an ancient friend. Valmiki, the Hindu Herodotus, appeals to me more than any other Hindu writer, possibly because it has been my fortunate lot to see so many of the ancient writings from which his were taken. I can mentally bridge the gulf of time between us and picture him sitting at the feet of the old master, Narana, and like myself later from another great master, deriving pearls of wisdom from the ancient teachings. The Ramayana was written from temple records and temple histories, dictated from the originals by Narana to Valmiki. When Valmiki turned the tale of Rama and Sita into verse he used poetic license. Thoroughly to understand it and to appreciate it, it should also be read in the prose. To make things perfectly clear, I quote: "Then Valmiki went to Narana, a Rishi, one of the seven principal priests of India, and asked for the history of Rama and Sita. Then Narana from the temple histories read it to Valmiki." From the history given him by Narana, Valmiki wrote the verses forming the life of Rama and Sita, one of the greatest epics ever penned by man. Valmiki would make it appear in his verse that Rama was the son of the celestial orb, but in his prose writings he carefully shows that "Son of the Sun" does not mean a son of the celestial orb but a son of the Motherland, The Empire of the Sun, a colonial designation to which he was entitled being of the royal family of the Motherland. Although Rama and Sita is the principal theme in Valmiki's writings, it is not the only one. There is a great deal of history in prose. I quote from two translations, the historical parts from Hippolyte Fauche, and Rama and Sita from Romesh Dutt's "The synopsis of Rama and Sita is the celebration of the life, wanderings, exploits of Rama, the love of Rama for Sita his wife, the abduction of Sita by Ravana, the demon king of Ceylon, the final overthrow of Ravana by Rama and the return of Sita to Rama." Valmiki has indulged in a great deal of symbolical writings in the poem which are fully explained in other Hindu texts. From Rama and Sita (Romesh Dutt's translation): "Vain her threat and soft entreaty, Raven held her in his wrath, As the planet Buddha, captures, fair Rokini in his path. By his left hand, tremor shaken, Raksha held her streaming hair, By his right, the ruthless Raksha lifted high the fainting fair. Unseen dwellers of the woodland watched the dismal deed with shame. Marked the mighty armèd Raksha lift the poor and helpless dame, Seat her in his car celestial yoked with asses winged with speed, Golden in its shape and radiance, fleet as Indra's heavenly steed. Angry threat and sweet entreaty Raven to her ears addressed, As the struggling, fainting woman still held upon his breast. Vain his threat and vain entreaty, "Rama! Rama!" still she cried, To the dark and dismal forest where her noble lord had hied. Then arose the car celestial o'er the hill and wooded vale, Like a snake in eagle's talons, Sita writhed with piteous wail. "Still the dubious battle lasted, until Rama in his ire, Wielded Brahmin's dreadful weapon flaming with celestial fire. Winged as lightning, dart of Indra, fatal as the bolt of heaven, Wrapped in smoke and flaming flashes, speeding from the circle bow, Pierced the iron heart of Raven, laid the lifeless hero low." Hindu Manuscript, Date unknown (B. C.): "When morning dawned, Rama, taking the celestial car which Pushpaka had sent to him by Vivpishand, stood ready to depart. It had two stories and many chambers with windows and was draped with flags and banners. It gave forth a melodious sound as it coursed along its airy way." Hindu Manuscript, Dated 500 B. C.: "Rawan, King of Ceylon(?), flew over the enemy's army and dropped bombs, causing many casualties. Eventually Rawan was captured and slain and his flying machine fell into the hands of the Hindu chieftain Ram Chandra who flew it all the way back to his capital Adjudhia in Norther India." Without question both of these manuscripts were taken from the same temple records at Ayhodia, as was the Rama and Sita poem, referring back 20,000 years ago. Maha Bharata (1000 B. C.): Mention is made in this ancient book of the "gift of the flying machine" by a king to a brother monarch as a token of friendship. These are the most detailed accounts I have found about airships of the Hindus 15,000 to 20,000 years ago, ex- cept one which is a drawing and instructions for the construction of the airship and her machinery, power, engine, etc. The power is taken from the atmosphere in a very simple inexpensive manner. The engine is somewhat like our present-day turbine in that it works from one chamber into another until finally exhausted. When the engine is once started it never stops until turned off. It will continue on if allowed to do so until the bearing are worn out. These ships could keep circling around the earth without ever once coming down until the machinery wore out. The power is unlimited, or rather limited only by what metals will stand. I find various flights spoken of which according to our maps would run from 1000 to 3000 miles. All records relating to these airships distinctly state that they were self-moving, they propelled themselves; in other words, they generated their own power as they flew along. They were independent of all fuel. It seems to me, in the face of this, and with all our boasting, we are about 15,000 to 20,000 years behind the times. Dropping bombs from airships is a new sport with us, less than twenty years old; yet here we see that it was done 15,000 to 20,000 year ago. Rawan was shot down with a circular gun that spit fire and made thunder which is uncommonly like some of our machine guns today. Yet the world is flattering itself today that never before during the history of man has there ever been such a brainy lot of scientists as are with us at the present time. Pure egotism crowned with ignorance. I feel like the sage of old who said: "There is nothing new under the sun." There are many Chinese records of about the same date regarding these ancient flying machines. While modern Hindu historians look upon the Ra- mayana and some other Hindu writings as myths, the Hindus themselves do not: they know better; so do I. We know their origin and from what they were taken. They are not myth; they are histories written in the usual style of their time. They are, generally speaking, extremely sym- bolical, and because historians have failed to understand these symbolical writings, they have classed them as myths. Wheeler, "History of India" (Vol. 3, pp. 56, 57), says: "The Mayas became known in after times as Nagas and Danavas." Wheeler might have been more explicit and have said the Mayas came to India as Nagas and afterwards became known as Danavas. "The traditions of the Nagas are obscure in the extreme. They point, however, to an ancient Maya or Naga Empire in the Deccan where the modern city of Nagpoor stands." The traditions of the Nagas are not so very obscure. The Nagas formed the first Hindu Empire. Their first king was called Ra Ma. At what date the Empire commenced or at what date it ended, only traditions remain and these, as Wheeler says, are obscure. Tradition says that the Naga Empire commenced more than 35,000 years ago. From various other legends I think this is conservative. An empire followed the Naga and lasted 10,000 years. Some of the temple records say that this empire ended about 3000 B. C., or 5000 years ago. Wheeler has fallen into the same error as Chandler about the Nagas being serpent worshipers. Naga was the name of the cobra de capella in the Motherland and was selected by these people as their symbol of the Creator. They gave it seven heads to correspond with the seven commands of the Creation and adopted the name of Nagas for their distinction among the other people of the Motherland whose symbol for the Creator was different from their own. H. T. Colebrook, "Asiatic Research" (Vol. 2, pp. 369, 476), says: "Maya (Prince Maya) is considered the author of Souyra Siddhanta. Souyra Siddhanta is the most ancient treatise on astronomy in India. Prince Maya is represented as receiving his science from a partial incarnation of the Sun." Prince Maya was the son of one of the early kings of the Naga Empire. Tradition says "he lived more than 20,000 years ago and when a young man went to the Motherland to attend her colleges where he learnt his sciences." This would account for the representation that he was "A partial incarnation of the Sun." The word "incarnation" is the wrong word. "This work on which all Indian astronomy is founded was discovered in Benares by Sir Robert Chambers. It is a work of great antiquity, since it is attributed to a Maya author whose astronomical rules show that he was well acquainted with trigonometry, proving that obtuse sciences were cultivated in these remote ages." My personal opinion regarding the original Souyra Siddhanta is that it was written in the Motherland and brought to India by Prince Maya when he returned from his studies. The Rig Veda. The Rig Veda is one of the old Hindu books and is supposed to have been written about 1500 B.C. The meaning of the name is: Rig——verse, and Veda—— knowledge. Knowledge given in verse. The Rig Veda is unquestionably written from two sources, namely, temple histories and legends; therefore, the Rig Veda tells of the then past and not of the then present, 1500 B. C. Some of it unquestionably refers back tens of thousands of years as it is found in the writings of the Motherland. There are several remarkable passages in the Rig Veda which correspond with the Sacred Inspired Writings. As an example: "Desire was formed in His mind." This refers to Creation. In the Popul Vuh, the Quiché Sacred Book, written in Guatemala, Central America, also taken from the Sacred Writings, it appears as: "First desire was formed in His mind to create." In the Nahantl writings of Yucatan it is given as "He expressed a desire to create." In the Rig Veda is written: "He who measures out the light in the atmosphere." In the Nahantl it is given: "In the atmosphere which contains the light." In the Sacred Writings: "The arrows of the Sun met the arrows of the earth in her atmosphere and gave life to light." I am definitely sure, although without proof, that the original Rig Veda was composed by a Naacal poet and was stolen by the Aryans who afterwards claimed it as their own production. At the time the Rig Veda was written, the Aryans were neither highly educated nor competent to write such verse. The Naacals were. They were the adepts of the wisdom and sciences of the Motherland. I am not criticizing histories on modern India. I am simply attempting to throw light on the writers of the ancient history of India who have all, except Robertson, evaded details about ancient India. They go back to the first settlement of Aryans in India and make that the start of India's civilization. When Indianologists decided on writing histories of India, why did they base their history on myths which are self-evident, instead of facts? The temples, most of them, have some sort of records of the ancient past, some more, some less, and a few none at all, so they say, but this is open to doubt. There are numerous figures and bas-reliefs carved on walls throughout India. Nearly every figure and group of figures is a tableau describing some historical event. All these are lines in history. The foregoing is all sufficient to show where the expressions found in the Rig Veda came from. A. E. Smith, commenting on the Vedic literature, says: "The age of the Vedic Literature is unknown but it is exceedingly remote." Here Smith is absolutely correct, for it is "exceedingly remote," being translations from the literature written in the Motherland and brought to India by the Naacals, tens of thousands of years before. Historians say that the Vedic literature was written by the Aryans. This is impossible. The Aryans were not sufficiently cultivated and advanced to compose such verse at the time the Rig Veda was written. The Aryans did not become known as scholars until a sect known as Brahmins began to form in colleges of their own based on the teachings they had received from the Naacals before they drove them out of India. And what extravagances did thees Brahmins introduce into the pure religion taught by the Naacals? Let us read: Vamana, one of the Hindu Sages. Vamana has many scornful and bitter words for the Brahmin ritualists and ascetic devotees who set their hopes of salvation upon formal ceremonies. "What are you better for smearing your body with ashes? Your thoughts should be set on God alone; for the rest, an ass can wallow in the dirt as well as you." "Oh, ye asses! Why do you make balls of food and give them to the crows in the name of your ancestors? How can a dung-eating crow be an ancestor of yours?" W. Robertson, "An Historical Disquisition, India," published 1794, page 247, says: "While among the Greeks and Romans the only method used for the notation of numbers was by the letters of the alphabet, which necessarily rendered arithmetical calculations extremely tedious and operose. The Indians had from time immemor- ial employed for the same purpose the ten cyphers, or figures, now universally known, and by means of them performed every operation in arithmetic with the greatest facility and expedition. "The Arabians (Moors) introduced the mode of notation into Europe. Men of business relinquished the former method of computation by letters, and the Indian arith- metic came into general use in Europe." Page 249: "The epoch of these astronomical tables is of high antiquity and coincides with the beginning of the celebrated era of the Calyouhan or Collee Jaque which commenced according to the Indian account 3102 B. C." "The Brahmins, it is well known, borrowed their system of cosmogony and acquired the knowledge of astronomy as well as all other sciences of civilization, from the highly civilized Nagas, whom afterwards they relentlessly perse- cuted." Page 254. Here Robertson again refers to "The early and high civilization of India. It is accordingly, for those very remote ages, about 5000 years distant from the present time, that their astronomy is most accurate and the nearer we come to our time, the conformity of its results with ours diminishes." Here it is plainly seen that the Brahmins were re- sponsible for dragging India down from her foremost place among nations. It is here illustrated that when the wisdom and teachings of the Nagas were withdrawn the Brahmins at once commenced a downward fall in the sciences, giving evidence that is incontrovertible that the persecution and driving out of the Naga scientists, the teachers of the Brahmins, was the death knell to India's supremacy in the sciences and her high position among nations. When the Nagas could stand the persecution no longer, those who could took their books and records and went into the mountains on the north, settling in monasteries on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Subsequently they were forced to take another step further north. They then settled in Tibet on the northern slopes of the Himalayas. Very few remained in the south. Page 298: "From this long induction, the conclusion which seems obvious is that the Indian astronomy is founded on observations which were made at a very early period, and when we consider the exact agreement of the places which they assigned to the sun, moon and other heavenly bodies at that epoch with those deduced from the tables of De La Caille and Mayer, it strongly confirms the truth of the position which I have been endeavoring to establish concerning the early and high state of civilization in India." The foregoing confirms my own research work. It is clearly and distinctly shown that the civilization of India ranked amongst the foremost in the world, thousands and tens of thousands of years ago, tens of thousands of years before the Aryans made a settlement in India; it clearly and distinctly shows that the Aryans were inferior in civilization, arts and sciences to the highly civilized Nagas into whose country they entered; it is clearly and distinctly shown that the Aryans obtained their civilization and what arts and sciences they knew from the Nagas. The Brahmin priesthood first learnt what they could and then persecuted the Nagas to extinction. M. De Voltaire, "The Hist. & State of all nations," A.D. 1758, Vol. 3, page 13: "The school of the ancient gymnosophists was still subsisting in the great city of Benares on the banks of the Ganges. There the Brahmins cultivated the Sacred language, which they call Hanferit, and look upon it as the most ancient of all the east. They admit of genii, like the primitive Persians. They tell their disciples that idols are made only to fix the attention of the people and are different emblems of the deity; but as this sound theology would turn to no profit they concealed it from the people and leave them in their ignorance in which they find their own account. It seems as the heat of southern climates rendered the inhabitants more inclined to superstitution and enthusiasm than other countries." This needs no further comment on my part having heretofore shown what the Brahminitical Priesthood were. It, however, strongly confirmed Robertson and my own researches. The Manava-dharma Sastra, according to Chezy, was written 1300 B. C. from very ancient works of the Brahmins. To me it seems unquestionable that Chezy is wrong about its being written from "very ancient works of the Brahmins." This is without question another Naacal work. The work refers to times thousands upon thousands of years before the Brahmins developed in India. Com- petent Hindu sages tell me that this book refers to times more than 20,000 years ago. This I have corroborated by tablets found in temples. The Brahmins may have stolen it and published it as their own. The Maha Bharata is one of the great Hindu epics. Apparently it was written about 1000 B. C. Its author is unknown. I have been unable to find any temple histories from which this may have been taken. In all probability the basis of it was legendary. It recounts the great war the Bharatas fought during the 13th and 14th Centuries B. C. between Kurus, whose ancient kingdom was situated along the Upper Ganges, and Panchatas of a neighboring tribe. Kaurarus and Pandavas fought for the capital city of Hastinapur. The following is another headline which I have found condensing the details of the Bharata war: "The Kavarus, the 100 sons of Dhritarashtra, led by Dur- godhana, made war against the Pandavas, the 5 sons of Pandu, the brother of Dhritarashtra, who was led by Yudhisthira." 
from The Children of Mu, by James Churchward. Copyright 1931 by James Churchward. Paperback Library Edition, First Printing: February 1968. Paperback Library Inc., New York, N.Y.; pp. 150—164.
कृपया मदद कीजिए। मैं एक राजनीतिक कैदी हूं। https://old.reddit.com/thesee [♰] [♘] [®]
I. The Origin of Man II. The Eastern Lines III. Ancient North America IV. Stone Tablets from the Valley of Mexico (i.) (ii.) V. South America (i.) (ii.) VI. Atlantis VII. Western Europe VIII. The Greeks IX. Egypt X. The Western Lines XI. India (i.) (ii.) XII. Southern India XIII. The Great Uighur Empire XIV. Babylonia XV. Miscellaneous XVI. Intimate Hours with the Rishi
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2019.09.21 06:38 soonwar Wikipedia Page of the Day: Ramayana in Tamil literature

Ramayana in Tamil literature

Ramayana is one of the ancient Indian epics, with the first work being dated by scholars to around 3rd Century BC. The story is narrated by the saint poet Valmiki and tells the tale of an North Indian Prince Rama of the city of Ayodhya, who is banished into the forest along with his wife Sita and brother Lakshmana. During the exile, Sita gets kidnapped by the demon king Ravana of Lanka, and Rama with the help of a Vanara (primate like forest dwellers) army rescues Sita from Lanka. The tale has parallels to the Greek Iliad, the details however differing The original set in Sanskrit consists of 24,000 verses, and there are several variations in the story narrated in South Asian and South East Asian cultures, across India, Thailand and Indonesia, with several versions re-written in various Asian and Indian languages.
The story was first told in the Tamil language, in the 12th Century AD, by Kambar as Ramavataram (popularly known as Kamba Ramayanam). However, there are references to the Ramayana story in earlier Tamil literature, dating back as the early Tamil literature in CE, which indicate that the story was known in the Tamil lands much before Kamba Ramayana in the 12th Century.
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2019.09.13 15:14 Sage010101 Using astrological argument in Ram Jann Bhumi case

I was just wondering, that the place of birth is a key input in preparing a horoscope. And Lord Rama's horoscope is a part of Ramayana. There could be an argument made in the ongoing case in Indian Supreme Court on these grounds : Using the date and time of birth and present day Ayodhya as the place of birth, create a horoscope, and if it matches with the one in Ramayana, it would be another proof that Lord Rama was indeed born in what is Ayodhya in present day Uttar Pradesh.
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2019.09.09 05:02 aucklandeventlover Events this week in Tāmaki Makaurau - 9 September – 15 September

Kia ora, this is a weekly listing of exciting events going down in Tāmaki Makaurau this week
There's a form below if you have anything you want considered for listing in the future :)
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click here to notify us on events in the coming weeks: https://forms.gle/JM3CVx7N4zyxjLGD8
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Dating of the Ramayana and Mahabharata - YouTube #NileshOak on the dating of #Mahabharata #Ramayana and # ... Books review of dating of Ramayana and Mahabharata Dating of the Ramayana and Mahabharata - YouTube Dating Hindu Epics Mahabharata & Ramayana - Debate between ...

  1. Dating of the Ramayana and Mahabharata - YouTube
  2. #NileshOak on the dating of #Mahabharata #Ramayana and # ...
  3. Books review of dating of Ramayana and Mahabharata
  4. Dating of the Ramayana and Mahabharata - YouTube
  5. Dating Hindu Epics Mahabharata & Ramayana - Debate between ...
  6. Brill Iak: Dating of the Ramayana and Mahabarhta - YouTube

Two of the greatest social scientists (if we could call them that) of our times, eminent chemical engineer, Dharma researcher Nilesh Nilkanth Oak and Dr. Koe... Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. #NileshOak #JaipurDialogues Taking off from the introduction in session 1, Nilesh Oak does a detailed presentation of his theory on Indian Chronology that pl... Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Dating of Ramayana - What makes claim of 5114 BCE false! - Duration: 10:17. Nilesh Oak 9,626 views. 10:17. The Yugas, Sri Yukteswar and the Movement of Consciousness - Duration: 8:22. Source video: https://youtu.be/RedV48OCEFg Nilesh Oak does a thorough analysis of ancient Indian texts to provide definitive date ranges for Ramayana and Mah...